In mutual frustration I could say I would love to bring up ki and not have it turn into another of your how great you aren't....and that's okay we're all equal discussions. I keep hoping for better and improved people.

I don't know why you want to talk about me anyway, Mary. I was talking about a host of people.
I can talk all day about the great men who founded these arts, the great men who followed them, and the great people teaching today and make the same points without needing to bring you into the conversation even once.

Case in point your thread wanted to talk about making people stronger. Okay.
Running around in circles chasing someone's hand while people twirl with their own arms dangling as if they are scared to death to use them lest they "muscle up" is more akin to what I see from the people who talk about ki.
In a discussion of ki (which was known to be powerful) where does the above make sense?
Power how?
How much?
Against what?
When does the pressure increase?
Why?
Against who?
Against what?
No need to talk about you or me is there?

Dan