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Old 07-06-2012, 05:53 AM   #113
Dave de Vos
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Dojo: Shoryukai, Breda (aikikai) & Aiki-Budocentrum Breda (yoseikan)
Location: Baarle-Nassau
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 348
Re: Ki to the Highway

Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
It is very very interesting, to practice qi gong the way I learn it, to practice aikidō the way I learned it:
No talking of ki/qi. Not at all. Just bodywork. Aligning the body, becoming what we call "permeable", searching for the "perfect" movement. Getting aware of the body. (The body, nothing else.) ... I am not able and don't want to describe our whole training process. No talking of ki/qi. Never. It works just fine without it. Just bodywork. Doing this for over 18 years now. In different ways.
So you avoid usage of the term like Matthew Story, but your motivation is different. You don't deny its existence.
Your policy partly acknowledges Matthews position, in that understanding its meaning does not help to acquire this specific body quality. Only specific body work does.
I mostly agree with that, but I do think that knowing the term could help a little to guide one's training. In this thread for example this small exchange was helpful to me:

Dave de Vos wrote: View Post
I also feel sensations in my tissue when training, which over time has gradually expanded from the outside of my lower arms to my torso. This is not very useful (that I know of) but I think it is a part of the process.

I think my connections are getting better and I think I'm making some progress in developing and using dantien, but again, this is very gradual. Sometimes in aikido I try to consciously use my body the way I train, but that's not easy. I guess I have to solo train more until it becomes like second nature. Also, I'm only 4 kyu in aikido (since last month) so aikido by itself is already quite a challenge.
Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
just my opinion, but the connection you mention in the first sentence above is hugely important, huge! As it relates to what you said in the second in regards to using your body that way when you do aikido, you should be working to feel that sensation or connection in everything you do, before, during and after. IMO, the whole second nature stuff will never happen until you start feeling those things outside of solo exercises doing every day life stuff. So work what you have, what you can feel and just continue to build.
While ki was not mentioned here, I think of these sensations as ki effects, side effects of training this body quality. I think that identifying it like that helps a bit to guide my training and motivate me to keep going.

Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
It is certain forms of body work that lead to certain ways of understanding qi/ki. Not the other way round. You use your body. You use your intent. And maybe you come to find, what is called qi/ki. And if so it will strike you that your personal experience is identical with a lot of things that are to read in old texts. (Or good modern ones ...)

Last edited by Dave de Vos : 07-06-2012 at 05:58 AM.
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