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Old 07-05-2012, 12:38 PM   #96
OwlMatt's Avatar
Dojo: Milwaukee Aikikai
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 401
Re: Ki to the Highway

Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
Please share with us the details of those explanations
You have me there; I'm not a biologist. But as I see it, the burden of proof is on the believer and not the non-believer. We all learned in high school biology that the brain sends electric signals to the muscles by way of the nervous system and the muscles respond; I think it's up to the ki believer to explain why that's not good enough.

whole section of the discussion is out context and is going nowhere on both sides, so how about dropping it.
It's going nowhere because, on this particular point, you're wrong and you either can't see it or won't admit it. I'm sorry to sound harsh, and I mean no disrespect, but history is clear about this. The assertion that something must be correct because lots of people have believed it over a long period of time is just plain wrong. It has been disproved over and over again.

The concept of ki provides answers to questions current physics cannot totally explain - to not to believe in ki would require belief in something else that does provide all the answers - to say something does not exist because it cannot be totally explained by the science of the day is essentially having the same mindset of those that believed the world was flat - people need to question, dream, imagine, and explore; that is how we grow, learn, and develop new technologies.
You are seeing a gap that I don't see. What in the martial arts needs explaining and cannot be explained by physics?

What action are you talking about? in your simple model, is the other person feeling your thoughts or reading your mind? I am talking about two people standing still with one physical connection between them that can be anywhere on either body; and one person will simply use mental intent to send energy out into the other person and have it move in that person in an up, down, sideways, or circular direction with absolutely no physical movement by either party.
I simply don't believe that happens.

I think what you are describing is actually the effect of subtle changes in what our muscles are doing and how they are asserting themselves. The reason that sometimes we don't see much of it externally is that our muscles aren't visible from the outside, especially in a gi. There are some guys (like the aforementioned Ikeda) that have gotten very good at doing this very subtly--and that kind of skill is an amazing thing and should not be scoffed at--but they're still using physics.

n my ki model, it is my ki controlling the other persons ki just like I can control the flow of ki energy in my own body. How can your thought model control the other person's thoughts or will?
It can't. But I question your belief that controlling someone else's will is possible.

Never said ki was not used or controlled in my body without intent. As I said in my #79 post, none of us know for sure exactly what ki is and we are all guessing.
Which I consider strong evidence that it doesn't really exist.

However, I have been refining my model of it for 35 years to keep answering questions that physics fail to do; and believe it or not, I am a very practical technologist that relies on physics for most things. However, physics just does provide me all the answers that my model of ki can - so, until someone can prove where my model is wrong, I am sticking with it.
Once again, I've never heard such a question (at least in terms of how the martial arts work), and once again, the burden of proof is on the believer and not the non-believer.

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