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Old 07-05-2012, 10:10 AM   #85
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Re: Ki to the Highway

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Let's take, for example, when Ueshiba wrote to stand in six directions. Now, people came along and decided that it meant to stand in hanmi of 60 degrees angle. They came up with opinions that meant something to them personally and enable them to function in obtaining true objectives of developing aikido skills and abilities.

Now, did that help them, in any way whatsoever, in replicating Ueshiba's skills and abilities? The answer is not just no, but emphatically no.

Let's overlay "ki" with "stand in six directions". Ueshiba meant something specific when talking about these concepts. Turns out, many of these specific concepts can be found in martial classics and there, they have specific meanings. How can you tell? Fairly easy. You take all those people who came up with opinions that meant something to them and see if they have the same skills and abilities of those martial masters who all talked about the same thing in the same way. 99% will fail that test. Those martial masters weren't guessing. They knew the concepts and when tested, showed those concepts in a martial environment.

That is what people in budo should be looking for. Not their own opinion of what something should be, but what the classics actually meant in regards to martial arts. What those men in budo meant when they talked about concepts.

When climbing a mountain, all those people at the very bottom look up and say, hey, there's all kinds of paths to the top. But those few who are 3/4 of the way up know that there are very few paths to the top. And those paths are well known by the few who have made it. They can be described by those few. And those few all look at the people and their opinions at the bottom, smile, and say, show me the truth of your opinion.

Just because all those people at the bottom get together and form a general concensus on an opinion doesn't mean that their opinion is right, true, or worthy. They can all stand at the bottom in hanmi at 60 degree angles and repeat that mantra for 20 to 40 years ... oh wait, they have ... and yet they are no closer to Ueshiba's skills and abilities. Meanwhile, men like Chen Fake, Hong Jungshen, Sagawa, Ueshiba, all talk about the same concepts and martial classics ... from the top of the mountain.

All IMO but what do I know? I'm
Mark
You make my point very well - I said as long as you know what your true results should be it does not matter what you call your process, or the science behind how your process actually works, and as long as the true results are obtained, your process works for you. The point you bring out is that they thought they knew what they were looking for but they were wrong and actually followed a wrong process regardless of what that process was called. In this case, the ends justify the means. If you can duplicate Ueshiba's skill, chances are you followed his process of development very closely - you just may have called it something different. In other words, you made that process personal by forming opinions and conclusions that you could relate to and still produce the proper results.

I think absolutely too much effort is made in trying to understand what someone meant and then trying to duplicate things based on that person's viewpoint. I think you need to look at what that person could produce and then find what works in you that will produce they same thing - chances are it will be very similar to what the other person was doing, but it also is a good chance that you and that other person would look at the process differently to some extent because no two people are the same.

Greg
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