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Old 10-09-2002, 04:15 PM   #18
Aristeia
Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
New Zealand
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Re: Re: Turning Out of Shihonage

Quote:
Andrew O Byrne (andrew) wrote:
Shihonage is considered one of the cornerstones of aikido because there's so much involved in doing it properly. There is a way to stop uke from spinning, and you'll eventually find it in training. There's no magic formula- it's complex enough that a verbal explanation just won't cut it for you.

The thing you can do at this stage, though, is ask these guys spinning out to just take the ukemi. Eventually you'll have it figured out to the point that when they try spinning out, they'll be unable to. I hope.

andrew
I'm gonna have to disagree with that. I firmly believe you should NEVER tell uke to "just take the ukemi". Uke is never wrong, they have two simple jobs, attack, and recover. Sure you can tell them to just take the ukemi for now and eventually it will seem like you have got the technique sussed to stop them spinning out. But more likely rather than having trained yourself to do the technique correctly, you've trained uke to just fall.

Beginners offer a great opportunity to train with people that have no preconceived notion of how they should be moving. They're not "playing the role". Which is great. Having said that many beginners also don't move in a way I would describe as natural. It all boils down to this - never tell uke "just fall like this" without explaining to them (or showing them) why that is the best and safest thing to do. If you can't figure out how to do that, then you need to be dealing with whatever movement they're giving you. As people advance in experience this is invaluable to get a better insight into techniques and how to adapt them when things don't go as expected. For juniors, as someone else said, they need to call their sensei over to explain to both partners a)how to stop uke moving like that and b) why uke probably doesn't want to move like that.
Quote:
Andrew O Byrne (andrew) wrote:
Anyhow, I wouldn't think shihonage should be one of the first techniques you consider using "on the street."

andrew
Why on earth not. It had better be. Ikkyo, irimi nage, shiho nage. These are the first techniques we learn. They are the cornerstone most of us fall back on in those moments when we're no longer thinking about technique but just acting. Watch anyone start jiyu waza and more often than not their first response to shomen is irimi nage, their first response to yokomen is shiho (or variation thereof).

The point being that these are the techniques many people are most likely to default to in an actual combat situation. It won't be a matter of which technique you are considering, it will be a matter of which technique you find yourself in the middle of. So they'd better be useful. I think shiho is good in this instance because a) It is so easy to make it so much nastier than it is in the dojo (e.g. breaking the arm over the shoulder), b)it's easy to flow from shiho into other techniques if uke isn't moving as you'd hoped (irimi, juji, repo....)

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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