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Old 05-28-2012, 05:24 PM   #89
Tom Verhoeven
Dojo: Aikido Auvergne Kumano dojo
Location: Auvergne
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 295
Re: Spiritual and i/p

Christopher Li wrote: View Post
Dan's been talking about this stuff for more than 15 years in various places, starting back on the old Aikido-L mailing list.

Obviously, if Ueshiba and Takeda (and others) were doing it than this stuff is not new - but it is new to many people, and that is how I've presented it.

I've been in Aikido almost as long as you have - I've been to and met the places and people that were familiar to Ueshiba. I haven't made any judgements as to your experience, you ought not to make any judgements as to mine.

I've asked you several times for clarifications of statements that you made and received no answer - nothing to dismiss there...


I did not imply that Dan Harden was a beginner. I am not familiar with Aikido-L. I expressed my surprise to find someone, that I had not heard of before, not only to researching the same things as I had, but claiming that he completely understood it.

The way things are presented by him and students of him like you, suggests at the least that you claim or think that Dan Harden is the only one researching this and or the only one who got it (where have I heard that before). I tried to point out that that is not the case. A bit more openness would reach more people than being so adamant.

The way you present your findings show the same pattern. As if none of these subjects could not be found elsewhere, while there is a pile of books written on Shinto by people with more academic expertise then you have shown us. This would still be fine in my book if your interpretations and suggestions were not used as facts in different threads. "Facts" that are meant to support the position of Dan Harden as the only person that got the message of O Sensei.
That I call a hidden agenda.

I would be very much interested in a dialogue with Dan Harden, because I do think that he has something worthwhile to share. Between you and me there is no dialogue. You have an established point of view and in none of the threads have I seen you accept another way of looking at things other then when it fitted into your own story.
Whether you have been practicing Aikido as long as me or not is neither here nor there.

You stated that you dismissed the shihan that you have met in Japan. You stated in an response of one of my posts that you dismissed Hikitsuchi sensei as having an understanding of O Sensei's teaching. That must mean that you think that you have an expertise on this matter that is well beyond that of these shihan. Otherwise I would call such an assumption arrogance or misguidedness. I did not judge your experiences, but I am disagreeing with this kind of attitude.

As far as I am aware I have given you plenty of clarifications in every response. But at times you are trying to press me in a direction that I do not want to go to, I will not be used for your hidden agenda.