But you missed the point of opinion on Spiritual and IP...having to produce results.
I could say "What is the value of thousands of people all agreeing on a thing.....then meeting someone who blows that up and they have to start over?"
I guess we can all agree.....they all agree...they were wrong.
Many organizations, frequently circle the wagons and shoot arrows...just before they give up, but in this case there are no enemies.
I have not missed a point. I have expressed a 2500 year old principle on how to engage into a dialogue with valid points and valid counter-arguments.
Opinions and results are irrelevant here - they are your own responsibility. Using these principles of engagement you will either be able to convince the other of your view on things or it will be refuted. It is then up to you to come up with a better argument.
Being right or thinking that you are right is not enough. You have to come up with truthful and valid reasoning. Using untruthful points of argument or invalid counter-arguments or a sophism immediately disqualify your statement(s).