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Old 05-12-2012, 07:37 AM   #9
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Re: Intelligent Fools, Dragons, and Princesses

Ross Robertson wrote: View Post

I always appreciate your thoughts. What I am seeking is to learn more about the basis for your assertions. I see a number of things that you say as if they were self-evidently true, but to me they are not. I don't mean I think they are necessarily false, but rather that to me they are not self-evidently true.

I also think ego and logic are very different in my own experience. You speak of wisdom as being a kind of higher logic, and this I agree with, but as a vindication of logic rather than a refutation of it.

Ego is not the enemy. Not to me, anyway. Ego can be made into an enemy, but it is not inherently so, and it takes work to make it so in any case. Ego is simply one manifestation of our true self. Ego is a kind of interface between self and other. That at least is my understanding, so it makes more sense to me to deal with it lovingly, to see that it is rightfully healthy and functional, and is not being derogated.

In any case, I enjoy our exchanges and honor your views. I'm deeply grateful for your contributions to the discussion of my articles and the respectful attention you give them. The wonderful thing about these fora is how we can come together to extend and amplify one another, not necessarily in unison, but more often in harmony. It pleases me that you and I can be in the same chorus.
Hi Ross.
Thanks for your comments, I enjoy sharing. Like you I approach from the view of sharing rather than argument or using the fora as a battle ground.

A number of things I say I do present as if self evidently true, yes, so you are quite correct in your view there and yes my way of putting things although of unusual terminology are generally quite assertive so as is my style.

I find that certain wise people throughout the ages come up with views and point out truths designed to help others, to provide guidelines for others, so that they too can come to see these things. The funny thing is that most of them come up with the same kind of views be they Ueshiba, Buddha, or any other religious prophet or wise yogi or wise man or woman. Statements like' love conquers all' 'faith moves mountains' etc. etc. These enlightened and wise people see this and say it as if it's self evidently true which to them it is.

Thus I see it as my duty, being on a similar path, to work towards fully understanding such views and transcending being just an intelligent fool ha, ha. Such is the path to me.

Recently I started a thread on academics and in the past have given my views on study. I see study itself as a cycle, a sequence of steps towards an end goal. It starts with purpose. desire, and intention and ends with ability, doing. With all steps completed then this should be the result.

Now, along the way on this path of study we are gaining understandings to do with what we are addressing. As we progress these understandings get more and more real. We gather lots of data along the way but as they get more real we then throw away lots of the data for it has served it's purpose. We thus come to a full understanding and an ability to do, to apply why we have learned and it is simple and easy and at that point obvious. The next 'problem' only comes about if you then want to teach or help others understand for to them it is not obvious. Self evident. This is how it is and always will be.

I like your view on ego too. I cannot disagree with it or seeing it as an interface. That's a very good way of looking at it.

I can only say that coming to learn and understand the truth of the things talked about by past wise and enlightened people as true self, then and only then can one discover and differentiate even more between self and ego and indeed learn more about ego. Thus the goal isn't the destruction of ego but the enlightenment of self.

There is no magic wand but the correct ways are always magic.

One last thing on logic. I hold that you can study, address and learn about, anything.

Thus you can study love itself, kindness itself, life itself, anything.

In doing so you can find that as understanding increases then the principles of the thing being studied become revealed. The truths on which they are based and follow unerringly. Thus discovering these principles they can be utilized and thus comes about the technology of the thing and a new way of thinking or looking at things. A new 'logic.' Along the way though these new improved understandings lead to self realizations and letting go of past firmly held beliefs and normal yet false or let's say detrimental understandings. So the path is a path and a discipline and cannot stray from the cycle of study and practice and the enlightened views are based on principles and the discipline of application of those principles and is thus a way and a wisdom.

So I would prefer to say that the way of wisdom (albeit a higher logic) rules out so much of what is called logic by the 'intelligent fools' who tend to be seen as 'superior' in this world today that I tend to emphasize the foolishness of logic.

This is also my zen way of doing things.

What am I? Nothing. What can I be? Anything. Even an intelligent fool.

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