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Old 05-05-2012, 08:45 AM   #67
Alberto_Italiano
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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Re: your number one technique

Quote:
Geoff Byers wrote: View Post
Or then again, I may likely kill or maim him. It's odd how you think the odds are automatically stacked against someone who intervenes. I'd love to know the logic process that keeps bringing you to this conclusion. The aggressor is human, just like everyone else, including me. He's not a magical boogeyman.

Wrong. Most women are raped by a single man, usually someone they know, at work or in the home. If you have sources saying differently I would enjoy seeing them.

It's impossible to know beforehand what will happen. "The fight will not be the way you want it to be. The fight will be the way it is. YOU must be flexible enough to adapt."

Absolute and unequivocal rubbish. I've indulged in fisticuffs, and you can never tell what's going to happen from looking into your opponent's eyes. It's a fight, not falling in love.

"You can tell by the eyes" is nothing more than superstitious nonsense. If there is any science to back it up, I would heartily enjoy seeing it. If you were to look at my eyes, for instance, you would be able to tell absolutely nothing and would totally miss my fists beginning to move.

Whether she's a lady or not really doesn't come into it, and rape damages slightly more than someone's reputation. If a life has worth, it's because one acts in such a way that imbues it with value, not because one merely stays alive. I'm all for a bit of prudence, but advocating never intervening is just as bad as advocating always intervening.
Ok I will do my best to explain better my points, perhaps I have not been able to do so. However, as long as you want to keep it confrontational with me (you gave this impression using terms like "rubbish") we are on two different agendas then.

I am genuinely interested in conveying my experience and, possibily, in supplying some advice that I hope can be of some practical use, although I know it may be puzzling.
Indeed, before I learned it on my own skin, I deemed it implausible myself until I discovered it was that way - so I really can't blame you (neither I have such intention, for that matter) for your impression.

But really, my friend, I have no intention of being confrontational with you. You're entitled to your own point of view and I don't feel any need to disqualify it in order to improve the standing of mine.

About point 1 - it is true that the aggressor is human, however my idea of a Martial Artist (which I advance no claim to be, but I prefer keeping my eye on that goal) is that of a guy who is martial as long as he keeps it real and artist as long as he can control his mind under fire.

But you wont control your mind if you begin without respect for your opponent - respect meaning: never underestimate any single opponent you meet. Consider all of them potentially dangerous (and, in fact, they can be).

I have seen with my own eyes about 10 years ago the Italian Champion of Karate (cannot remember which federation though) being beaten up by two normal guys who simply were brave enough to hit him with a bottle on his face first. He was rushed to the hospital and not one single chance to hit his aggressors back. A life on the dojo, to end up like that in a real fight...

If you don't fear their competence, fear even more their incompetence.

Persons are all too inclined to figure a fight like something where, since your counterpart is human, you are the actor who is arriving and beating the living daylights out of him like the hero of the day, and the other is the passive and callow taker.
This delusion is what often brings to calamitous results. Harboring a sense of grandiosity in a fight is a formula that most of the times ends up in heavy damages to both parts.

If you engage in a fist fight without boxing gloves, you will inflict to each other terrible wounds with just a few punches. Breaking a lip is a matter of a trivial jab. Splitting one eyebrow is a matter of a trivial hook (I can assure you that when blood starts entering your eyes, and you have no pause between rounds to take care of that, your sight will be impaired and then you're game).
Breaking a cheekbone is a matter of a simple right. You may end easily bleeding profusely and carrying BOTH of you scars for the rest of your lives.

If you enter a fight without figuring out exactly the dangers you may incur into, you're in for bad surprises whose consequences may accompany you for a lifetime.
One of these consequences (and to be sure: I bring the irreparable damages of what I am saying in my own flesh and body, of which I am reminded every single day) is not that of the other guy hurting you - it is, rather, that of you hurting yourself. If you have been in fights, you should know a few ways this may happen..........

As for raping a woman, this has never been a scenario that I envisioned as particularly likely. Or at any rate that's not the typical violent scenarios we may meet in my city. So I cannot elaborate on that and I don't know enough about it. I've never seen such a situation myself - however were I to see one I would call 911 immediately, but I would not intervene feeling righteously entitled to.
My choice. I respect yours and I find it more commendable than mine. But I stick to my own guns here, and as for myself, I would not get into a fight to save the lady and be the knight in shining armour

As for seeing from the eyes of your opponent what happens, indeed you can do that and with an amazing degree of precision. Although I agree that one needs to have a considerable experience. But when you say that it is not "falling in love", I think that you may have misunderstood me. I am not fantasizing, nor I am staring into the eyes of my opponent because i find him handsome... I do that because I can know with precision that whatever he is trying to conceal, if it is going to be leaked, it will be betrayed there.

I don't like saying this here, although a few of the members of this forum know this, but actually I am an ex boxeur. I mean I have been in 36 matches (sorry if those are not the exact English terms, I mean competitions) with 27 wins and I have been knocked down only once. True, that was decades ago, however when I say that you can see from your opponent's eyes what he is going to do, I am not stating it as a fantasy but as an empirically proved fact from the confrontations I had in competitions and in sparring training.
Unfortunately, that is a somewhat "esoteric" knowledge that you won't retain after your initiation: if you quit fighting (which is what I referred to as "initiation") for years, you will lose that thing.

So, if you don't know this thing, namely that the eyes of your opponent can tell you a lot, then my advice stands: if you don't know this thing, please consider not to accept street fights, the fact you have been lucky thus far only means that, well, you have been lucky for a lil while.

Just my advice, but it is not true that it is "rubbish" - for me, it worked and it worked in a manner that I could prove by putting my own safety at stake in competitions and saving myself exactly in that fashion.
I could elaborate more about why it works so well but I don't ant to keep this too long.

You seem to believe that if you watch my eyes you would "miss fists beginning to move" - my friend you must not watch his hands. If you watch his hands, they will end on your face all the same.

Your attention must not be on anything else than either his face or chest.
I knew several guys, beaters more than technicians (uhm, in Italian we say "picchiatore" o "tecnico" but dunno in English), who actually kept their eyes on the chest assuming that "I know his head is on top of it" - they never focused on details about where the hands were: it is not that you follow the hands with your eyes, you must be quick enough to react when the hands enter into your horizon of events, without following them with your eyes. You wait for them, you won't chase them.
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You need not to see his hands, you must know beforehand what's coming next because for every given setting there is only a limited amount of physical possibile combinations coming your way (if he hit you with a jab, 90% of the times you won't need to "watch his fists" in order to know that what will follow is most likely either a second jab and a straight right or just the straight right... and you forestall that by beginning to accommodate that eventuality accordingly before the fist moves) and because you should be aware of your overall environment.
When i was dodging hooks I did not see his fists: I saw his face and I sensed with the corner of my eye "something" coming on my left, I immediately lowered to make it pass, and then I was not seeing his fists in order to know that his second hook was coming for me too (and in fact most of the times it did) so I lowered always twice and there I could hear his right hook swiiiiiish over my head - i did not see his fist. I didn't need to.
At the same time I knew that when i was lowering there was a residual chance of being intercepted by an uppercut so whenever i lowered i kept my gloves closely on my face - I did not try to "watch his hands" - I tried, constantly, to anticipate. To know "beforehand" - that's what I meant, but if a person has never been there perhaps it is difficult to understand this.

And that for the "beforehand" part. It's not magik. It's experience.
I hope this clarifies, I apologize if at times I am not smart enough. I do know that some of my advice is precious because it saved my days and my brain from concussion many many years ago but unfortunately I may be not very good in conveying it. I am sorry that I don't succeed but I can assure you I am trying to share the little I know, the part of whose value I am certain - as for those about whose value I am not certain (which is much wider) or I have not tested, I don't share those.

ps if you have a chance whatch Hagler against Mugabi on youtube. Focus on how orderly and composed Hagler is under fire. Do yo have the impression they are watching each other's hands or their faces?

Last edited by Alberto_Italiano : 05-05-2012 at 08:56 AM.
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