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Old 04-03-2012, 06:02 PM   #144
Chris Li
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Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,300
Re: The Founder's Teaching Ability

Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
Hello Chris

Did Osensei's teacher (Takeda) produce multiple students after him who reached or exceeded his level? Did their students in turn produce students who reached or exceeded Takeda's level? How about the likes of Hisa, who started Daito-ryu under Ueshiba then went on to study it under Takeda, got promoted then later taught it as aikido saying it was the same thing? Did both award him ranks for abilities he had not attained?
That's a hard question to answer, since he was much less visible than Ueshiba. Generally speaking, I'd be of the opinion that Takeda was not a great teacher either although, like Ueshiba, he was apparently quite inspiring. It might even be possible to make the argument that the problem with transmission was partially due to Takeda, since Ueshiba quite deliberately imitated him in so many ways (right down to the titles).

Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
Many of us have become familiar with the acronym IHTBF. Did you feel a great many of Ueshiba's senior students? It is conceivable that Takeda and Ueshiba gave out recognition of ability in the form or ranks or scrolls without regard for the reality. However, if we assume that they did care a little about how people who would represent them would be able to perform, I have the following question for you: How can you tell that these students didn't get the goods when Ueshiba apparently thought they had? In other words, what can you recognise the absence of in his students that Ueshiba could not? CMA skills? Kokyu-ryoku?
Some of them I have and some of them I haven't. I don't know that he that he thought that they had the goods. There were menkyo kaiden awarded after just a couple of years, and after the war it wasn't uncommon for people to find themselves suddenly promoted to 8th dan - more than once.

Don't get me wrong - Ueshiba has some very skilled students. But the ones that got what they got don't seem to know how they got it - and because of that were unable to pass the thing on effectively. We're at an important time right now where we can see the effects of three or four generations of transmission in a large range of people.

Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
There seems to be a consensus that Osensei had certain goods himself. I appreciate the study people are doing into how similar skills are found elsewhere but if you find him consistently recognising people for their aikido ability without passing on a particular essential training method there could be a number of reasons. One is that his training method was different. Another is that it was the same as these other arts and he was not competent at passing it on (which begs the question, who was competent?). The ideas that he didn't care or was too lost in his religious pursuits have also been mentioned.


I think that it was the combination of a lot of things. More on that later, maybe...



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