There's a pretty good record of who Takeda produced and what they could do - Ueshiba among others. Who did the Founder produce of that level?
As I said - that's where we disagree - I think that I've seen almost all of the big names, in person, and I just don't see it, in them and (more importantly), in their students.
Arguing your opinion would be disrespectful and ignorant on my part. I must apology for I wasn't clear. The Founder took upon the responsibility for his own training and excelled because of his aptitude and mindset. He was a man in a time different with a different way of life than from his students. I recognize you feel the top students of the Founder didn't make par in your experience and knowledge base. There is no reason for me to argue an opinion you are entitled too.
I was thinking more inline of Shioda, and Saito off the top of my head. Let me welcome anyone who wished to add to this list. I feel both these men where training in a time there was more information available to them. Valid information useful to support independent study, than being solely dependent on the Founder. I can't say they did or didn't explore other martial arts information to gain knowledge they felt the Founder omitted. Shioda did have a limited time with the Founder as a teacher. Here Shidoa can be considered similar to a student who theoretically the Founder withheld information. Shioda's skill didn't deteriorate, it improved greatly. Here we are looking at the benefits and development of a student who lacked much information and still developed great skill. Was he better or as good as the Founder? Good question, I don't know. It is evident he did improve with limited knowledge and instruction from the Founder. It answers the question for me, the Founder didn't with hold information.
Lastly, a teacher can tell a student everything the teacher knows. The student's ability to process the information and use it may be limited. The student in this case when in comparison to others feels the teacher wasn't forthcoming with their knowledge.
Well, I need to wrap things up on the wonderful Monday. Hope everyone enjoys the rest of the day.