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Old 02-23-2012, 02:46 PM   #21
Ernesto Lemke
Dojo: Seikokan , Leeuwarden
Location: Leeuwarden. the Netherlands
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 150
Re: Kiichi Hogen and the Secret of Aikido

Hi Dan,

As I hope was evident in my post, I was raising questions thinking mostly of those people who remain unconvinced there is actually anything to "Internal Training."
Fact is, a lot of aikido practitioners are....unconvinced that is. For those who are not, Chris' points are all but affirming established viewpoints. However, what I think Chris is attempting to show/do, is make a case in favour of IT being a well established aspect to Ueshiba finding it's origin way back to China (among other things - sorry if I'm misrepresenting your aims here Chris).

For the "non-believers", it would do good, I think, to carefully outline where and how IT has it's place in Ueshiba's training regime. I think Chris did an excellent job raising those questions. I don't care much whether these are uncomfortable or not. They need to be addressed.

However, the link from references to In Yo, ten/chi/jin, etc. in Ueshiba's writing and making the case that he therefore was an Internal Martial Artist for people with no experience with IT - who therefore miss an IMO essential frame of reference for a proper context - is not a "leap" that will follow automatically. I can see people reading the references but reading the claims that those references are part of a tangible training approach from the IP/Aiki partisans still sounds like a case of trying to convince people.
The arguments in favour of this viewpoint - if the desire is to get the point across that that was what he was - IMO doesn't need a repeat of the same things: pointing to all of his references to IT. I think the point first needs to be made that these references ARE aspects of IT. And then we are right back to where Aikiweb was some 5 years ago.....but...

How come all those firy debates concerning IT have all but gone? Some people may have become tired. Some are happy to dwell in their own beliefs and don't want things to change.
I've been reading, ocassionaly posting, on the various forums for 10+ years now and it seems like almost all has been said. The exciting times are now less shared online but more in person. Still, we, I, have the internet to thank for that.

Well, a little too much red wine, too late a time, and some lamenting on times when Aikiweb was a little more exciting. I do think these are exciting times though! But then I have my viewpoints firmly rooted within the IT paradigm. C'mon people! It's a fun place to be! Come share the fun!

Last edited by Ernesto Lemke : 02-23-2012 at 02:50 PM.

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