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Old 01-31-2012, 10:44 PM   #360
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
Re: "The goal is not to throw"

Jason Casteel wrote: View Post

How much of this type of training do you think Mochizuki sensei brought over from his Kobukan days and how much do you think were things he changed in the name of improving what they did? I was hoping you would offer some insights in the "testing (skill) aikido" thread I started, but this was essentially what I was looking for.
I think the general spirit was close to the kobukan, though Kobukan may have been more competetive in the early 30s, with everyone outdoing each other for the Emperor as well as O Sensei. I get the feeling that the general pace and context of the training was similar, especially based on all the videos I've ever seen of the training. And I think that up to black belt, for all the stand-up aikido techniques, the randori looks about the same. But he adds the ground grappling, chokes and sutemi waza. I think Mochizuki was conducting his best version of the training environment of budo he had been immersed in all his life. His dojo personified the qualities you see in every Japanese traditonal art including judo, kendo, kenjutsu, and aikido, as well as the arts like kyudo, naginatado and kobudo, but also things like tea and dance and shodo. I don't mean that he taught all that, but there is a distinct commonality among those things and how they're practiced, and his dojo was steeped in that Japaneseness.

As far as the techniques he was teaching, of course, there's his addition of sutemi and newaza ground fighting, but he also may have deleted a lot of stuff that was in daito ryu. All of our techniques looked like aikido, as Stan Pranin says, like Ueshiba showed in 1935, consistent with Iwama and consistent to me, for the most part, with Yoshinkan. So who took out all the intricate, twisty no-hands pins you see in daito ryu videos? The throws are all pretty much seen in aikido, but not those weird things where uke is bent 90 degrees to the side, both of his arms behind his back and locked in place only by uke's own inability to move. Mochizuki was such a collector of jujutsu technique, I'm thinking he would have kept those techniques if he had learned them. It seems to me that Ueshiba must have deleted those techniques and did not include them in the DR license scroll he gave Mochizuki. Otherwise, Mochizuki would surely have kept such strange techniques.


Unless he analyzed the strange pins and found them unrealistic or unreliable. He wouldn't have collected a phony technique.

But look at the 1935 Asahi movie and I don't remember Ueshiba showing those lock-ups himself, like you see Kondo showing sometimes.

I've just wondered about that sometimes.

So did Ueshiba delete that stuff or did Mochizuki?



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