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Old 01-29-2012, 08:37 AM   #283
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
United_States
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Re: "The goal is not to throw"

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
You watch too many movies my friend.
I can tell you I've certainly seen too many of your movies.

But, Graham...I lived in Japan. My experience does not come from movies.

Did you live in Japan? Did you ever know anyone who actually trained with Morihei Ueshiba?

And believe me, it's very different to train in a Western dojo under one Japanese teacher with a bunch of Western white-belts than to train under one Japanese master in a Japanese dojo full of 6th and 7th dan Japanese who train like human tornadoes.

I was uchi deshi to one of Ueshiba's earliest uchi deshi and his dojo was full of highly-ranked men (and some women) who all wanted to be Mochizuki's closest student. Since Mochizuki was supervisor of the uchi deshi in the "Hell Gym," you see, the training at the yoseikan hombu was intense. I trained with people from white belt to judan (in Japan). I trained with police, police instructors, prison guards, MMA fighters, judo champions, karate masters, etc. I went to bars. I met yakuza and I ran into people who were real bad-asses. All I would have had to do was make any little claim and they would have been on me "like ugly on an ape," to injure if not kill. But they went away liking me.

So your views on Japanese culture are at great variance to my direct experience of the culture. And what about Ellis Amdur's accounts of the thugs he met on the subway? Do you think those are his imagination? Those people are real. And there were more of them in the old days.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
In the old days people respected what others said and only the braggards went around challenging and telling them to prove it.
Graham....where do you get your ideas about "the old days"?

What experience do you have with the Japanese to say anything like that? It sounds to me like maybe you have been watching the movies or reading pulp fiction.

The truth is, if you said, "I can do XYZ," if someone didn't stand up right beside you and say, "Let's see it," in a week or two someone from elsewhere would show up and say "Let's see it." It was as sure as the waves of the sea.

The truth is, disrespect was far more common than respect. Real respect came only from ONE thing: if you said it, you could do it and you wouldn't hesitate to show it if someone challenged your claim.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
In the old days people respected what others said and only the braggards went around challenging and telling them to prove it.
Graham...the braggard is the one who makes the claim to begin with, isn't he?

If you say, "I can lift as much weight as Arnold Schwarzenegger," how is it being a braggard to ask you to show it?

In the old days, the Japanese worked hard from morning to late at night, demanding, physical, hard work. They were all far over-worked and had very little to do for entertainment. And if one were martially minded and trained hard with a powerful teacher, he would have no patience for BS. As soon as anyone made any kind of claim of martial arts ability, ten people would say, "Haaaaaahhhh????" quickly followed by "Misete!" and if the claimant could not prove what he said, everyone would laugh at him to utter ridicule.

And that is the main reason most Japanese just didn't talk: as sure as you spoke, you would certainly be challenged and probably embarrassed.

Just think about how judo was selected to be the training method for police in Japan: competition among several styles of jujutsu. Bloody competition, with serious injuries among jujutsu experts. Your view of the "old days" is quite amusing in that light.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Put up or shut up? Maybe you need to see the truth of that too. Not the schoolyard version.
I know the dojo version, Graham. And I know the street version. I don't claim what I can't do. I have stepped up. After I made insulting remarks to Rob John, I went and met him and he proved what he said. I didn't hide behind distance or expense or moral superiority. I put my life on the line.

I stepped up to Ark and felt the incredible power that radiates from him.

I stepped up to Dan and put my spleen on the line.

In every case, I learned.

But you have made these claims about yourself; you have denigrated other people who I know have the real stuff; and you have refused to meet them and even see if they're doing something different from what you think.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
You now have my personal invite.
While I'm sure you would be merciful, your "invite" doesn't really sound so friendly. Your ego is showing again. And you just accrued more than a little karma.

It's unfortunate that I have no plans to be in UK anytime soon, but I know someone who will be there this year. Would it be okay if he takes up the invite in my place?

Cheers.

David

Last edited by David Orange : 01-29-2012 at 08:43 AM. Reason: typos

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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