Thread: Feeling
View Single Post
Old 01-26-2012, 04:00 PM   #26
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Re: Feeling

Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
Are you really missing my point or just avoiding it? I think it is you who is trying to connect what you say with what someone else says. I'm trying to either disconnect it or find out how you can justify the connection.

In my previous post I asked you to clarify one way or the other if you are just talking about your own aikido or that of others too regarding this "feeling different on touch".
  • When you start a thread claiming "a new phenomena" is standard to your aikido, I want to 'understand' if that phenomenon is the same one you were arguing about recently.
  • If not, please say so. If so, I also want to ‘understand' how you got enough information on an IHTBF phenomenon without feeling to be able to connect it to your aikido.

It's that simple.

The use of the word "understand" instead of "know" that you introduced earlier hints that you don't claim to have the exact information, in which case I think you should retract the claim that the phenomenon is "standard to" or "regularly stated in" your aikido.


Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
Of course he can speak for himself, and I hope he'll correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he wants a logical explaination for why you seem to claim to understand what other folks do without having any direct experience; given the idea that "it must be felt," but without feeling it.

I think it would be clearer to say, "...if I didn't think I understand." You may well understand exactly what he's doing, even better than he does (Carl suggested this as a possibility in fact), but all we can know over the internet is how our words and phrases match up. Everything else, no matter how probable, is speculation until we experience the proof in the pudding. Knowing Socrates/Plato as you do, you can see where there might be a concern regarding people who spend a lot of time talking about how much they know while spending very little time talking about how much they don't know. I'm guessing it has to do with this.

I agree. This is why I think even people like me who have no real skill should be able to describe whatever they practice however they want (i.e. an "internal method" is one which focuses on internal methodology, no matter how effective). However, you seem to claim to know exactly what someone else's methods are; not just what his descriptions are. I believe it is this appearance which causes so many to question your point of view.
...and again, I hope people will actually correct me where I seem mistaken.
Take care!
Hi Matthew.
I thought here was the place where people shared understandings. Therefore it's not for you to know for as you said over the internet you can't know. Carl appears to want to know.

If I didn't think I understood? I know what I understand and and I know what I don't understand. Nothing to do with thinking if I do or not.

Now as for me claiming to know exactly, well take it from me if I mean know exactly then I would say know exactly. As I have never used such terms then it shows whoever thinks I said that is incorrect in their observation.

As with everyone else I have abilities as well as understandings. A person with a good or advanced ability in football could listen to someone else in football and understand; understand what they mean when they explain something. He wouldn't have to 'feel it or see it physically'.

A wise man understands a lot without having to physically see or touch. Therefore thinking you Have to feel it to understand is incorrect. To know exactly, then that is correct. But still not always true.

Recently an old student came back visiting and told me about a couple of things 'different' to what I do from an Aikido he has been doing. I told him I understand. He said 'no, it's different, that's what I'm telling you' I said 'I know, I understand.' and laughed.

Now he was confused. He proceeded to 'show me' but somehow his technique didn't work. He was confused again as it usually worked and then added 'but you'd know if you felt it from my teacher'

'I know how your teacher does it' I said and proceeded to do the same to him as he was trying to show me. It worked and very dramatically too. He got up surprised exclaiming 'you know!'

So in that case I knew without having been there or ever trained in that style.

This then opened him up to ask about other parts of his Aikido that he and others there were getting stuck on. I understood, saw the why's, corrected.

If on the other hand he had told me something he was practicing and words alone didn't give me understanding I would say I don't understand. Usually I would then get the person to show me and feel not only what they are doing but also what they are trying to do. In these cases through feeling I understand and correct.

I can watch and tell most times what a person is or isn't doing standing a few feet away, I can even feel it. I'm sure many others can too.

How many times have I heard students tell me it's quite freaky when they try something or try to disguise something and yet still find I know what they are doing.

It's not magic, it's a build up of lot's of understandings and abilities.

So excuse me for laughing or challenging statements made which say you must this or you must that in order to understand or know.

The more you understand the more you can view other things and understand. The more you know the more you can do the same.

  Reply With Quote