View Single Post
Old 12-07-2011, 10:45 AM   #42
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,148
Offline
Re: "Irimi" by Ellis Amdur

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Jon Reading wrote:

It is my definition too.

You made me think of something that has not been addressed. The concept of "pre-emptive strike".

Really I think this is a very related issue and one that centers heavily around ethics and the ethical employment of force.

For me, irimi is not pre-emptive. pre-emptive means you are attacking uke before he attacks you. As most of us know the doctrine of pre-emptive strike employed by the U.S. in Iraq has been a source of controversy.

So, if I enter into nage and disrupt him (attack) before he attacks I think it is one set of ethics. If I respond when he attacks another....I think this concept is covered well in the Oscar O'ratti book dealing with the four possible scenarios of attack.

When Graham discusses moving behind uke by moving off the line before uke attacks...I see this as pre-emptive. Of course, what you do once you achieve this position affects the ethics of the situation, but the fact is...you have done SOMETHING that uke must now react to in some way. I would say, for most situations in which he felt threatened and exposed, it will serve to escalate the situation.

Is that good or bad? I think it depends, but at the base level YOU did something that caused Uke to respond.

On the other hand, if Uke moves first and attacks, and I respond...well then it might be different even though the outcome ends up the same.

I am not saying what is right or wrong...only that we need to consider all the factors that go into the situations we might find ourselves in.
I think Kevin it is not so simple.
I believe that that it is not an attack itself that is so important and it has nothing to do with ethics. It is enough that an attacker creates an important threat for you. I.e. you are walking on the street and you see that group of ppl start to surround you. It is not yet an attack but it is clearly dangerous for you. You have to enter immediately otherwise it will be too late. Of course your judgment must be right; you have to clearly perceive bad intent.

The perception of the intent of attacker is one of most important elements in aikido training I believe.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote