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Old 12-05-2011, 07:15 PM   #114
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
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Re: Saotome Sensei's Training History

Quote:
Ken McGrew wrote: View Post
This discussion thread has grown to be about how to avoid insulting others. I think Graham would argue just don't feel insulted. We can't all be Graham. And I don't believe that deciding not to recognize disagreement makes the disagreement go away. A lasting resolution that prevents future insult, intentional or implied is possible. But when the claims that are made themselves lead to insult then the underlying issue has not been resolved. It will come back as it has for years in new manifestations. Give it a week. Again I say, it would be better to avoid implied or stated insults in the future all together.

Now if the etiquette that Graham describes were followed, then people could do their own thing and it wouldn't matter in a given dojo. Problem is that people sometimes want to bring their new approach into a dojo were it is not wanted by all, as discussed in this thread:

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...ki+back+aikido

The etiquette is not followed for the same reasons that the insults are implied or stated.

The idea that Aikido can be anything anyone wants it to be is a very generous idea. It is an extreme example of refusing to fight. I don't think that Gary, Katherine, or most Aikido artists would agree with that idea. Moreover, we are not talking about whether people differ over how to approach Aikido on a continuum, some stronger than others, some more spiritual than others. We are at the basic level of whether O Sensei taught Doshu and other students of that Aikido as an art of non-resistance and harmony. An art without some basic agreed upon definition of what it is cannot survive.

But this is all for another discussion unless related to how to avoid causing insult.
Ken. I'm interested. Where is this etiquette not followed? I have heard the rule of leaving all what you know at the door when training in another dojo their way and have heard it said on this forum a number of times.

I believe O'Sensei did the same by what he has said.

I also believe it is the responsibility of the person in charge to see this happens.

Now, add to that that any trying this against that outside of normal training can also be incorporated by giving it it's own space either in another part of the dojo or 'after hours' so to speak. Then it would come under research or some such label. Thus it's all a matter of organization rather than right or wrong or even interruptive.

That's how I see it and do it but I can't speak for how others do.

I have said before I have come across various people doing various forms of internal things to try and thwart the effectiveness of Aikido in practice. Usually I would reprimand such a person not because he was doing it but because he wasn't practicing the prescribed way and was surrupticiously introducing it. I would then do one of two things. Either show the person I can do the technique no matter what they are doing or otherwise tell them that after class they may do this and students may try to do their techniques whilst that person uses their 'other' way.

Once again organization.

I will in no uncertain terms now and again blatantly say 'that's not Aikido' but then the oness is on me to show why and what is. But hey, what's new? The same goes for all arts and sports and businesses etc. ie: 'Here we do it this way.'

Regards.G.