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Old 12-05-2011, 12:57 PM   #15
Keith Larman
Dojo: AIA, Los Angeles, CA
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,604
Re: Terry Dobson's Training History

Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
If truth is subjective falsehood can not exist.
True or truth can be subjective depending on what is being considered. It is true that I remember doing something 10 years ago. That statement can very well be true even if I do not remember it "correctly". Or if I remember it differently. Remember that most of the interesting things we talk about are not exactly amenable to precise and absolute quantification or description. As such they all suffer from perspective issues and the "weighting" the observer places on various aspects.

How often have we all taken classes where we walk away with some lesson that we thought was profound and critical only to talk with others in the class and find they came away with something completely different? Is it the case that only one person can be right? Sometimes. Is it the case that maybe they can all be right? Sometimes. Where does truth lie here?

Truth, for most people, aren't just absolutes. And are often open to debate and perspective. I think Ellis' posts points to that very strongly. Some want absolute. Some treat all things as absolute. Some will do that to a level where they lose all nuance, subtlety and shading. Which IMHO gets them vastly further away from a higher level of truth.

I would rephrase your quote to "If *ALL* truth is subjective *absolute* falsehood cannot exist." Okay, but the really interesting stuff are usually the things that aren't absolutes or easily quantifiable or precisely described. Some things we take to be true are very colored by subjectivity. Most non-trivial things require a perspective, an observation, a re-coding in to linguistic representation, or something that introduces some degree of subjective/cultural/whatever bias. That's why we have conversations, debates, and discussion. To flesh out the more subtle stuff. To decide how much weight to put on the "truth" of various things.

But my recounting of memories of my training are truthful to the best of my memory. But they are also absolutely subjective, even if I wrote them down. Because they are my impressions. My experiences. My "understanding" of those experiences.

Philosophers have been arguing about truth forever. Scientists generally avoid the topic altogether as it is a minefield since each person tends to apply their own standard of what might make something the "truth".

Back to your regularly scheduled discussion...

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