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Old 11-23-2011, 10:01 AM   #18
Carsten Möllering
 
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Dojo: Hildesheimer Aikido Verein
Location: Hildesheim
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Re: Violence and Aikido

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
... chaotic Ki or mal intent in good Aikido. So there is no violence. ...
Maybe it depends on language, but I understand violance as to force or control someone, using authority, power, might, knowledge, aikido waza ... .
Violence just means do make someone do something against his own intention or will or wish. It is not about good or mal intent.

Brutality or bestiality is something different.

Quote:
When you pick up a baby and put him down in a cot is your energy violent?
To do the same with a six year old child against it's will, is violence.
To make an inmate I work with calm down by bringing him to the ground an fixing him there until he relaxes is violence. But not mal intent.
Loving protection may use violence if needed. (Indeed exactly that is one of the reasons that made me start with aikido.)

Quote:
The only question really is can you do ikkyo or even nikkyo with this non-violence? Have you ever felt it done so?
I can do ikkyo or even nikyo without using pain. (On good days ...) And maybe you know that the aikido Endo teaches allways tries to use open hands, no gabbing, no muscle power, very gentle and open and "friendly". We are sometimes mocked as to "fondle uke to the ground".
But still this means to bring someone to the ground who wants to stay upright. And to guide someone on a way he doesn't want to go.
Quote:
When going for a ride on a train do you feel dominated?
I make him ride on the same train I travel with. He doesn't ride on the train, leading to the destination he had in mind.
So this is kind of "kidnapping".

Quote:
Thus for me I would say have you ever felt Aikido?
Maybe I sometimes felt a way of aikido you seem to describe. But it didn't convince me.

Quote:
A person or uke feeling this Aikido does not feel dominated. ... When treated with love and kindness do you feel dominated?
It didn't convince me, precisely because I didn't feel "dominated" by tori: I was allways free to do what I wanted to. To fall, to just go away, to punch tori into the face ... I had to be told how to behave as uke.
So I felt dominated not by tori, but by the teacher who told me what to do as uke, how to attack and when to fall. I had to restrain myself instead of being lead by tori. I didn't like that.

I don't think that aikido is different from other budo in this concern: For it is a budo, there is violance included. And on the other hand other budo also have ethics included like aikido has.

... well, I right walked into the trap ... had this discussion over and over ...

Last edited by Carsten Möllering : 11-23-2011 at 10:03 AM.
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