Thread: Ueshiba's Aiki
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:41 PM   #364
Ken McGrew
Dojo: Aikido at UAB
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 202
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Re: Ueshiba's Aiki

Mr. Harden,

I did not compare to you Ki Society. I used them as an example of people being good at something, but the fact that they are good at it does not convince me it's because they have Ki beams coming out of their eyes, mouths, and fingers. But they were good. You are good. But does that prove the other things you say.

I have already apologized for any misquotations of you and for losing my patience earlier. Your supporters and yourself were not blameless. To be accused of lying right off the bat would offend anyone. It offended me and I responded badly initially. Do you think all these personal attacks that continue, all the statements about "budo men" reflects well on your people? Why don't we move on. If I'm not worth communicating with, then don't. If what you claim is correct then what you say is very important. If it is not correct that doesn't prove that you have nothing to offer.

If we go back in the discussion carefully I could point to people who stated that all of O Sensei's Aikido was the Aiki connection and that everything else, blending, leading, body positioning, were tricks and not Aiki. The people who made these statements presented themselves as knowing what you were doing. You even praised some of them for presenting your ideas. I know it's a lot of posts and you haven't read them all word for word. Just saying. I'm responding to specific things people said.

Now I am very confused about what you believe as you reject the list I gave. That list is taken from what people said on here on your behalf and from things you said. I could point to the various statements made by yourself and others that led me to make the list. You in fact said it is not relational and is inside yourself. I don't understand why you would now deny you said that. It would be so much easier if you or someone you officially endorse to the purpose would either make a list or respond to my list.

If your argument is that yo ho internal unbalancing is only part of what makes Aikido work, then I believe you may be right, so far as certain things like O Sensei's displays of grounding. I don't know if you are right. But I have no reason to say you are wrong. I know you have new translations that point to the fact that the concept of yo ho is important. There are other applications of the concept of yin and yang that the founder presented. I believe it was more than one thing. I believe this based on what direct students of his said. The new translations Chris found, speaking in terms of logic and evidence, may support some of your claims. They don't seem to be conclusive support for all the claims you have made, assuming I understand what those claims are at all. You do realize that Saotome Sensei did his own translations, with the help of a team of people, of certain lessons by O Sensei and published them in Harmony of Nature? We have more sources than the American translators for believing certain things about what O Sensei believed.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Yes.

Again, I think that your manner coming in did yourself a disservice. I think it was you who should have apologized for the manner in which you approached this -particularly to me- so everyone could have re-set. You angered/irritated quite a few people. Not by the debate you wanted to have but rather your manner.

Yes almost completely. It doesn't help that you misquote them as well.

In fact many of things I do teach are also outlined in some of your supposed counter arguments. It's why people are struggling to take you seriously. It's as if I am teaching the sky is blue, and you are arguing that the sky is blue. Sorry, but we can't help but laugh.

I
Good grief, man you are now stating what others stated to you. They do both exist AT THE SAME TIME. This is getting rather bizzare.

I have never said to reject what Ueshiba said.
"We have to go by what O Sensei said and what he passed down."
My argument is that you have never read what he actually DID SAY and pointed to as his aiki.
Oddly this is very clear to most who have read what I write, and a source of our disagreement on aikiweb, yet somehow you missed that.
Other than from myself, I have never read anything presented on the way Ueshiba moved that was correct-until the recent translations appeared and Ueshiba stated essentially what I have been saying all along. And the majority of the aikido I have seen is not what he was doing. FYI, comparing me to ki society further proves you have absolutely no idea of what I do or am talking about. In fact, it serves as a perfect example of that point. And it is another example that hundreds of teachers know is different and you don't. It would serve you well to know you do not know me or what I do, and leave it at that.
Oh well.
Dan

Last edited by Ken McGrew : 11-15-2011 at 04:46 PM.