Thread: Ueshiba's Aiki
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:20 PM   #358
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
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Re: Ueshiba's Aiki

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Ken McGrew wrote: View Post
Did you miss the post above while you were typing?
Yes.

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People have every right to post, but not to use personal attacks and try to drive other people away in order to win.
Again, I think that your manner coming in did yourself a disservice. I think it was you who should have apologized for the manner in which you approached this -particularly to me- so everyone could have re-set. You angered/irritated quite a few people. Not by the debate you wanted to have but rather your manner.

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I listed what I took to be what people say they are doing. Am I getting it wrong in the list I gave?
Yes almost completely. It doesn't help that you misquote them as well.

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I have presented lots of counter evidence and argumentation that undermines the evidence that you and your supporters have presented. Not to win for the sake of winning. I don't understand how you can say I have presented no counter evidence.
In fact many of things I do teach are also outlined in some of your supposed counter arguments. It's why people are struggling to take you seriously. It's as if I am teaching the sky is blue, and you are arguing that the sky is blue. Sorry, but we can't help but laugh.

I
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don't see any reason why the thing you are trying to describe can't exist at the same time that the things I'm describing, that O Sensei wrote, that others wrote and said about him, can't both exist within Aikido. There is a time to blend externally and throw. There's a time to connect internally, move a person (maybe even for their own good), and either throw or not throw. The fact that you feel that you found some evidence for your interpretation does not prove that O Sensei had not expanded on the art in ways that were important and not the result of yo ho. Yo ho may be the secret for the grounding demonstrations that O Sensei did. That doesn't mean that they are the secret for everything else he did. That is a basic mistake in logical argumentation. No offense intended by saying so.
Good grief, man you are now stating what others stated to you. They do both exist AT THE SAME TIME. This is getting rather bizzare.

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It's a lot to ask us to reject the things that O Sensei said to his students that were passed on to us. It's a lot to say that our teachers are just doing tricks that aren't Aiki. Translation errors can't erase the mountain of data here. Especially when you have so few translations to point to. We have to go by what O Sensei said and what he passed down. That doesn't mean that I think you suck at whatever you are doing. I trained with Ki society for a while. They were very good where I trained. Good Aikido. Effective. But not, in my opinion, for the reasons that they thought it worked. Still, very good Aikido.
I have never said to reject what Ueshiba said.
"We have to go by what O Sensei said and what he passed down."
My argument is that you have never read what he actually DID SAY and pointed to as his aiki.
Oddly this is very clear to most who have read what I write, and a source of our disagreement on aikiweb, yet somehow you missed that.
Other than from myself, I have never read anything presented on the way Ueshiba moved that was correct-until the recent translations appeared and Ueshiba stated essentially what I have been saying all along. And the majority of the aikido I have seen is not what he was doing. FYI, comparing me to ki society further proves you have absolutely no idea of what I do or am talking about. In fact, it serves as a perfect example of that point. And it is another example that hundreds of teachers know is different and you don't. It would serve you well to know you do not know me or what I do, and leave it at that.
Oh well.
Dan