Thread: Ueshiba's Aiki
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:46 PM   #353
Ken McGrew
Dojo: Aikido at UAB
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 202
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Re: Ueshiba's Aiki

Did you miss the post above while you were typing?

People have every right to post, but not to use personal attacks and try to drive other people away in order to win.

I listed what I took to be what people say they are doing. Am I getting it wrong in the list I gave?

I have presented lots of counter evidence and argumentation that undermines the evidence that you and your supporters have presented. Not to win for the sake of winning. I don't understand how you can say I have presented no counter evidence.

I don't see any reason why the thing you are trying to describe can't exist at the same time that the things I'm describing, that O Sensei wrote, that others wrote and said about him, can't both exist within Aikido. There is a time to blend externally and throw. There's a time to connect internally, move a person (maybe even for their own good), and either throw or not throw. The fact that you feel that you found some evidence for your interpretation does not prove that O Sensei had not expanded on the art in ways that were important and not the result of yo ho. Yo ho may be the secret for the grounding demonstrations that O Sensei did. That doesn't mean that they are the secret for everything else he did. That is a basic mistake in logical argumentation. No offense intended by saying so.

To the extent that people stop training the waza system, because they have decided it is fake and trickery, then they start to stop Uke all the time, then it becomes damaging to the training process as O Sensei described it to Saotome Sensei, as he described in his books and videos, Etc.

Please stop saying that people from ASU training with you makes you correct. They don't all agree. Do you think I haven't asked senior people to confirm I am not as clueless as has been suggested? I am just not as clueless and incompetent in my understanding of what I've been taught as has been said. I doubt that most people in ASU go to you for the reasons that you think. That is, they probably think that blending, Etc. are important and not fake... they just think you're good at what it is you do. It's not necessarily support for your bold claims.

It's a lot to ask us to reject the things that O Sensei said to his students that were passed on to us. It's a lot to say that our teachers are just doing tricks that aren't Aiki. Translation errors can't erase the mountain of data here. Especially when you have so few translations to point to. We have to go by what O Sensei said and what he passed down. That doesn't mean that I think you suck at whatever you are doing. I trained with Ki society for a while. They were very good where I trained. Good Aikido. Effective. But not, in my opinion, for the reasons that they thought it worked. Still, very good Aikido.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Mr McGrew
Those "people" are teachers of aikido. They have every right to discuss their aikido as anyone else. This movement isn't going away any day soon. I would not be surprised to come back in ten years and it is being discussed in the majority of dojo's. It is already being discussed by the top brass in various branches and by doshu.

When it comes to the discussion of internal power and aiki;
We have presented over the years, in many discussions, various how to's, reasons why, the logic in doing so, how it affects uke and you, where it occurs in other cultures and what our opinions were of the movements we saw.
Recently, some of my direct wording of what he was doing, has been validated in newly translated words of Ueshiba. In those works it is as if he was quoting me back at me...in his own words.

You have presented no counter evidence of anything as you don't understand what it is you are trying to counter.

In fairness, I think the burden was on us to try....somehow...to explain to the community that they had been had and not taught what Ueshiba was teaching and talking about. That their aikido was in fact not Ueshiba's aiki. Of course I can understand the angst, anger, and /or dismissiveness that was going to ensue. Sometimes you have to hold your breath going in, knowing that what you are saying and doing is correct and will prove true in the end. However, that was years ago. In all that time, and with hundreds of teachers and students going out to feel, test, train, whatever, the vast majority (almost 100%) have decided to train this way to enhance their aikido.
No one has ever told me it is counter or harmful to their aikido! In fact I hear just the opposite. I will add, that so far no one has been able to handle the power of aiki adequately, expressed and trained and demonstrated.

For this reason, I remain unmoved as to my observations and understanding of the skills I believe he was personally training, doing, and showing. I just returned from yet another seminar- with a teacher under your own Sensei- who stated that what I did was the finest explanation of Aiki in Aikido he had ever seen. So imagine how very odd for me personally to keep doing these seminars, and hearing these things, and for everyone to keep telling me it has changed their aikido for ever- only to read so much vitriol from those who do not understand it, have never felt it and who do not know me.
I continue to hope that we can do better, but in all honesty the attacks I continue to face do not come from me, they are aimed at me.
Dan

Last edited by Ken McGrew : 11-15-2011 at 03:00 PM.