Thread: Ueshiba's Aiki
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Old 11-12-2011, 12:54 AM   #204
kewms
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Re: Ueshiba's Aiki

Quote:
Ken McGrew wrote: View Post
Have you read my posts? O'Sensei told Saotome Sensei that the cooperative ukemi process in Aikido was critical to learning Aikido. No cooperative ukemi no Aikido. It's fundamental.
I read your posts. It is impossible to understand what you (or anyone else) actually mean by "cooperative ukemi" without getting on the mat with you. As Hugh pointed out, it is pretty difficult to teach any form of martial art without some degree of cooperation: that's why it's a martial art and not a street brawl, that's why many arts have kata. No one (including Dan) is denying that. Nor -- at that level -- is cooperation unique to aikido.

It is also impossible to learn any martial art -- especially one as subtle as aikido -- without feedback from an intelligent, competent uke. If I do *this,* it works. If I do *that,* it doesn't work. If *everything* works because uke is being so cooperative that he flies in whatever direction I wave my hand, then I'm never going to get anywhere close to what Saotome Sensei is doing. If uke's attacks are so miserably disorganized or overcommitted that a light breeze would push him over, then I'm never going to do much more than embarrass myself if attacked by, say, a moderately competent brown belt karateka or judoka.

The argument, then, is not that cooperation is always bad, but that one can have too much of a good thing. And, further, that too many aikidoka misunderstand the role of uke, and therefore fail to provide the feedback that nage needs to improve. (Hint: If you're not at least a rokudan, and your aikido always works, your partners are probably guilty of this.)

As I said upthread, the position I have stated above does not strike me as particularly controversial. It seems to me perfectly compatible with Saotome Sensei's thoughts on higher level ukemi (http://www.aikido-shobukan.org/?ref=19#The Proper Role of Uke in Yudansha Examination). Which is why I am confused that you find it so viscerally offensive.

So. Do you object to anything I stated above? What, and why? If not, what proposal about ukemi do you find so objectionable? (With, please, a reference to the point where that proposal was actually made. I'm afraid I haven't been as diligent as you in reading the history of this topic.)

Katherine

Last edited by kewms : 11-12-2011 at 01:00 AM.