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Old 11-02-2011, 07:43 AM   #73
jonreading's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido South (formerly Emory Aikikai)
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,135
Re: Being overly complacent as Uke

Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Well I disagree here. It is very important to be aware of why uke is tapping out and that's basically my main point. If you're not aware of why then you prohibit your own learning.

As I've said earlier you get ukes tapping out because of what they think is about to happen, usually based on past 'bad' experiences. That's not the time to let go.

Are we teaching people to recognise reality here or are we teaching them to fear?

It all sounds good that you must let go no matter what but on inspection I find it's not always the case.

Now before you think I am mentioning a very rare occurrence I assure you I am not. The number of times I have come across people tapping out for what they assume is about to happen and the number of times I have come across people throwing themselves into perfect, artistic, breakfalls for what they assume is about to happen is numerous.

Fear of what might be causes this including avoidance of possible pain. Aikido in my mind should be teaching how to face, harmonize with, be in present time. Thus I am not led by false tap outs.

My head is spinning. I kept hoping to read a post that clarified what Graham is saying, but he kept digging the hole... No means yes? At best, you are vaguely referring to a relationship in which you are empowered to help uke push his limits, at worst you have just described an assault.

1. Uke has the right to tap out whenever he wants, for whatever reason he sees fit. Nage has the obligation to respect and obey that request.
2. Partners with trusting relationships may empower each other to increase the environmental stress (and danger) to each other's person.
3. It is NEVER the role of the sensei to empower himself to "rectify" deficiencies in a student without obtaining consent from that student.
4. Trust is earned by establishing safe and respectful training environments, not because you are sensei.

I think you are trying to point out that in training we are supposed to create scenarios that push our boundaries. Personally, this is what I believe. Yes, eventually we want our students to understand the proper timing of ukemi. Good uke need to learn to hang in until nage no longer presents suki. But the notion that nage may do this in the interest of uke and not necessarily with his consent is disturbing, especially coming from a teacher.

You have now had several responsive posts that did not address some of the posters comments and I cannot help but to respond as well. You need to clarify your statements and consolidate your message.

"Fear does not exist in this dojo, does it? No, sensei! Pain does not exist in this dojo, does it? No, sensei!"
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