*shrug* I have enough self-esteem and confidence to value intact shoulders more than some stranger on the internet's opinion of my training.
And that's really my point in this whole sub-thread, too. They are MY shoulders. I simply DO NOT CARE what you or anyone else thinks they "should" be able to tolerate. I'm the one who is attached to them and will have to live with the consequences of an error, whether my own or nage's. So I will tap when I think it's appropriate, and I will avoid practice partners who don't respect that.
Again, if you think I'm tapping too soon, it's your job to convince me that you can be trusted with MY shoulders. How to convince me? Well, you could start by letting go when I tell you to. If you can't be trusted to do that, you certainly can't be trusted to help me stretch my limits.
You make a point but nothing to do with what I said. I never mentioned going past any point of tolerance.
In a dojo it is, or should be, a place of inherent trust in each other otherwise in my opinion it's not a good dojo. Therefore trust should be given as soon as you step on the mat.
When someone betrays that trust then you enter correction time and reprimand time.
So my point is that you should always give your trust not wait for it to be earned.
Having said that I understand where you are coming from so don't assume by what I say it means anything else.
Earning trust in the sense you are using it is also valid. Thus both are true. Degrees of is probably the point at hand.