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Old 09-25-2011, 07:17 PM   #13
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Re: inside the spiral vs. outside the spiral

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
Hi Lorien,
This may just be a descriptive issue... But as I understand it, there's is almost no time when uke is at the center and nage moves around him (unless connection was broken and nage needs to reposition).

We use the terms irimi and tenkan generally. A basic principle is that there is no tenkan without irimi. So, for me, there is almost never a time when uke is at the center and I am not. There are times when I appear to be very still, with minimal visible movement and uke is moving around me. There are times when I am moving a lot and uke is moving around me. I try to avoid any technique in which the uke is standing still and I am doing most of the moving since, in a real encounter, they won't really sit there waiting for me to get around to doing my technique. You will often see techniques done this way in Aikido because the partners have been taught not to counter. But I won't do them.

To my way of thinking, omote and ura often refer to something which equates to irimi and tenkan but they are not identical. Omote and ura are really positional descriptors and irimi and tenkan are descriptors of movement.

That's just my take on it.
- George
Hi George. Long time no see.

I was interested in your view there. I agree that there is no tenkan without irimi. However earlier in the thread I stated it sounded like tai-sabake to me. Allow me to explain.

Firstly, an attack, let's say a tsuki straight through done with the right hand. If the nage has left foot foreward then it is natural to irimi/tenkan off of that left foot.

If on the other hand nage has right foot foreward then it is more natural to tai sabake in order to enter.

O.K. So far so good.

Now if you view the uke as someone with a circular space around them, think geometry, then as they attack they are merely moving that circle foreward into your circle.

O.K. hope your still with me. Now note they they are the centre of that moving circle. The fact that they are thrusting straight through may represent the triangle but that is still within that circle.

Now irimi would be you entering in on the line of that same triangle yes?

Now back to tai-sabake which as I describe it is also entering but in an arc. Why? is the question.

I got my answer to that question through the application of one of Toheis principles of Aikido which is take your partners place. So please bear with me.

Let's return to the circle moving foreward and the uke being centre of that circle. If you tai sabake into that centre whilst remaining connected and take the ukes place then you have now joined and taken over his circle and are now leading his ki or energy back around his own circle of which you are now the centre.

Now all you have to do is replace the same concept of the circle with the spiral.

So I think the guy who visited Loriens dojo was talking from this perspective ie: The attacker being centre of their circle or spiral and then through tai-sabake find themselves flying around nage now the perimeter of their circle or spiral.

Regards.G.
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