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Old 09-06-2011, 05:46 AM   #58
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,219
United Kingdom
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Re: Why so many Haters of Shin Shin Toitsu Aikido?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
How about a healthy dose of intellectual honesty?
Own your practice and either defend it, and explain its worth, or stop asking us for our opinions and then telling us we don't get it.
Hi Dan,

I do own my practice with all it's qualities and faults. There is nothing to defend. I was not asking for opinions. I was responding to Patrick's offhand comment about his kids being able to push harder than what was being seen in the video. Which to me sounded a bit like those who see a Jackson Pollock painting and say "my kids could do better than that".

Quote:
Here we go again being asked to judge videos and practices, and people tell us we do not understand. I think these discussions are too often disingenuous. Why put up video, ask why we dismiss the practice, talk to people who have met and trained with Ki society people and tested them and then, like a certain person here, go on to routinely tell us - we- don't understand. I mean it's getting to be like clockwork. When I first saw this I said to myself..really...seriously...again?
Many videos are posted here, to either provoke discussion or to defend a position, or sometimes for sheer comedy value. I'm not sure the originators of the videos posted them on youtube (if they themselves even did) to ask for everyones judgement. Maybe they are just an expression of what they do. Then we pounce on them and rip them to bits or try to defend them.

If you know you understand something, and from having met you, I know that you do, why worry about those who think you don't? just sayin

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Tohei set an example of testing himself against judo players and other detractors who were trying to stop him. Apparently he put his ideas and his ass on the line. It seems that being a follower of that type of boldness, is just too much for many people.
As you know, next year I plan to get out into the world and put my own backside on the line. I am prepared to be shown how little or much I know or don't know as the case may be. I am not really interested in proving anything. If I have holes, I want to fix them, if I have the ability to perform well against those who test me, I want to improve that ability.

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Tohei had some power, but overall the styles teachers and members have certainly received quite a bit of bad reviews over the years haven't they?
How come Tohei didn't?
I'd bet it's because he could actually deliver and many in the art cannot. Is there something to be learned there?
The question is, where are the ki society people going out to judo and MMA dojo to test with people who want to see them undone? Since there is so much criticism that comes your way maybe it has some justification? I see no consideration, care or concern that it is perhaps the ki people who are truly the ones who do not understand what ki is capable of after all.
You may well be right, and not just for ki society people. I am not a member of the ki society and have never practiced in one of their dojos, but I will make a point of doing so on my travels.

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Maybe there is nothing wrong with Tohei's model...just the modern players lack of real understanding. Perhaps you should consider that it is you who are being presumptuous, and really don't understand what ki and aiki is truly capable of. While I remain a great fan of ki and aiki. I have seen too many videos of ki society people showing a profound lack of skill and understanding. Sadly, since I am on any other day a fan of the topic, I remain as unimpressed as everyone else who doesn't even believe in ki or aiki at all. From what I have seen, it is apparently because they do not really understand ki or aiki. And I know they would be delighted to move forward in their practice if they did. I have asked any number or ki people if I could test them...except for Greg Steckel, all have refused. That certainly doesn't say much.
You may well be correct here, I am humble enough to accept that I do not have all the answers, and the more I find out, the more I find there is more to find out. I am however, enjoying the journey. I will also, like Greg, be happy to be tested by you.

Quote:
Mark
Patrick trains with me. You are certainly welcome to come and train with us. Then we can have a discussion about who shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the test being performed and what ki can or cannot do. I think you will find we share a mutual interest in the subject itself, just not how one goes about achieving soft power in a more profound way that actually does work against full resistance.
This, is simply not it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VGH--Z6RVc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCk_g5-FhuM
Thanks for that invite Dan, I look forward to both the training and the discussion. I am interested in learning whatever I can to improve my own current abilities.

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I have no comment on the ribbons other than to say stop blaming your critics when you put this stuff out here. Good grief, at least own your practice and either stop asking questions or at least deal with the criticism in a more professional manner than to say your critics don't understand.
I guess you are commenting generally, rather than to me. I am not posting videos and asking for approval or criticism. However, sometimes criticism comes from those who know, and sometimes the critic does not fully comprehend. If all critics were equally knowing, all reviews would read the same.

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At the very least, if many of you are not as you continually say, doing a martial practice, then remove the keikogis and the fake attacks and make it a Yoga type movement. Most of the stuff that keeps being offered for us to view, certainly has no business being called a martial art.
just say'n
Dan
Just a question, is there any 'branch' of aikido that you feel is being practiced in a full 'martial' way? I do accept that ki-aikido is open to all sorts of criticism, from the martial end of the scale. It can't just be written off though can it?

My own teacher had the full on martial training, on offer in the 50's and 60's, that seems to have been relegated to history now. After training with Tohei for about 10/11 years, he uses all the exercises and terminology he learned from him, as he felt that this was a better method than the 'demonstrate and let them get on with it' approach, that was a more cultural norm.

Why can't we wear the kit when we practice? what does it matter to others, if we do?

Personally, I like the fact that aikido can be practiced by kids and adults, young and old. I like the fact that Ueshiba said that aikido is for everyone. I like the fact that it can be used as a tool for personal development and I like the fact that it can be effective as a means of self defence. I also like the fact that that there are guys like you out there, challenging us to keep it real

See you soon hopefully

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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