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Old 08-17-2011, 04:22 PM   #75
Howard Prior
Location: Crownsville, Md
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 40
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Re: The two body/mind concepts of Japanese Martial Arts.

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Keith Larman wrote: View Post
The point of the issue is that Western and Eastern cultures have very different conceptions at the very core of issues such as mind/body.
Yes. I would have thought that the "western" concept was more mind and body and the "eastern" concept more mind/body.

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So when someone starts to analyze the "meaning" of certain things through the eyes of the other culture apparently disregarding the very different underlying world view there is inevitably a significant alteration or loss of meaning.
Yes. At least I gather you mean that when one culture begins an attempt to understand another it cannot help but approach the attempt from its own point of view and that any progress toward real understanding is hard won.

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Misunderstanding abound as a result of this.
All too true and yet just this makes for a lively foment (not ferment, Phi) - not always a bad thing.

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The reference to Wittgenstein was a rather subtle concept he raised in the tractatus about how our way of understanding the world, even things like mathematics, physics, etc. in essence force our understanding to conform to our method of understanding.
Kant?

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Some would argue that his underlying point was that there could very well be other ways of seeing the same thing giving different representations of reality which would in turn alter our conceptions of other things as well.
Yes, I can see the possibility.

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So things like a very subtle difference in how mind/body (the very title of this thread) between cultures could have a significant effect on how one understand issues.
Yes, I agree. This would seem to be a magnification of the problems inherent in any communication ('There's glory for you!'). When do we ever understand one another? You know what I mean? Yet, clearly, cross cultural communication comes with its own raft of problems. Similar, though different, is the attempt to translate poetry from one language to another. One might get the meter. One might get the rhyme. One might get the meaning. Difficult to get all three into a second language (hard enough, I say, to get it into the original language).

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The very fact that some will talk about mind/body/spirit has having to be something to be dealt with shows a preconceived notion that those things are somehow distinct, different, or whatever.
Well, maybe you are right. I was not, however, really thinking of the word spirit in a religious or a spooky context.

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Or that the question is even relevant at all. It implies a certain world view where to another viewpoint the entire discussion may be not so much trivial as it would be without any meaning at all. In other words, nonsense in one meaning of the word.
I suppose I see it as though individuals have a circle (okay, maybe it's a spiral) of concepts that are different one from another though with overlapping areas of understanding. We share much. We do not share all. Different cultures are just more individuals with a tendency toward more distant edges and less overlap. We still share much. There is much we do not.
As you suggest, an interpreter may take a word, or an idea, from one culture as the equivalent of a word, or idea, in another. It may be a good fit. It may be passible. It may be a laughable mistake. So much the more with core values and concepts such as: right, wrong, good, evil, beauty.
I figure that even if they are not the same each culture has much in common it the phenomena it experiences and thus that which it tries to explain: life, death, loving, fighting, birth, growth, decay, hunger, pain, joy, friendship. The meanings and connections vary. We all see the sun and the moon but they do not mean the same thing to all of us.
By the way, returning to mere words, politicians seem to need to be expert at saying things that mean one thing to someone and another to someone else, at casting one line to catch two fish. There is a certain power in a word that means the same and different things.

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…Emily Latella...
Thanks for the reference - I hadn't come across it before.

I'm still in the weeds with hara and koshi and even nage. Haven't quite been able to wrap my mind around them.

Now Phi, I once was exposed to a wonderful egg-nage.

Cheers,
Howard
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