Thread: kamae problem
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:31 AM   #116
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
Re: kamae problem

What do you propose to do with training concepts and principles that are established, defined and known but the translator is totally ignorant of? Invent your own meanings by choosing the wrong words?
What do you propose when the speaker states he uses this concept, and the translator uses terminology that defies those concepts and other times fails to mention them at all?
I say it's on the translator.
Research can provide clarity to phrases that, taken at face value, at first "make no sense" to the translator. In so doing you can preserve "intact" the phrases and meanings of words that define the concept that will later be recognized by the informed reader.

However, faced with an unknown phrase, we see the translator opt to satisfy the presumed ignorance of a potential reader by re-interpreting a phrase and interjecting their own ignorance of the subject.

For you personally to think that leaves these established concepts up for debate until you are satisfied is of no interest to me. I have debated this with the community for twenty years and the community failed to deliver on their end in person-I didn't.
What you think, what I think is meaningless, anyway. The concepts were old ten generations ago. They are what they are and Ueshiba was stating them.

...this pisses me off. I did not attempt to translate any "established model". I intentionally left "tomoe" untranslated to preserve the original meaning as much as possible. I then added a note that "tomoe means eddies and swirls", which is uncontestable, just to provide some context for people who don't have Japanese ability. If you then say, "tomoe in this case refers to spiraling the legs", fantastic! That's why I posted the damn thing in the first place. Don't assume my intentions.
Hey, sorry for pissing you off. Truly.
You offered "eddies and swirls" for tomoe when you could have offered spiral, but you didn't. Why? It would have been my first choice.

"Tomoe" used as spiraling of the legs in and out is again an established concept. In another translated work he talks about spiraling opposite sides of the body as well. A translator familiar with these budo concepts and faced with a choice would pick words that defined the accepted model, in this case spiraling. As such it was a good example of not knowing what definition to use for a word or description through ignorance of the subject.
We probably would have had a better idea of what Ueshiba actually said if a Daito ryu or Chinese budo guy had helped translate his martial concepts.
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