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Old 07-14-2011, 09:13 PM   #80
Reuben's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Seishinkan
Location: Kuching
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 111
Re: Effective udekimenage against resistance

Thanks for all the replies!

Amir: True it was actually not in front of other students and it was a specific question that I posed to him but point taken especially if further 'testing' would result in me breaking my arm. Agreed on not trying a lock once uke has re-squared.

Abraham: It's a bit different in that the hand is secured and it looks like it was clamped down to break/manuever the opponent as opposed to udekimenage where it is a 'throw'. As how I understand it, udekimenage should project the opponent forward or it will break his elbow joint while in the video it looks like breaking the joint was the intention rather than a projection. It left his opponent no way to escape in a peaceful manner whereas in Aikido there's still that option.

I suppose the question is what is the sensitivity required when using udekimenage that would prompt uke to be thrown forward instead of breaking his elbow. Too fast and strong, and it'll just be an elbow break, too slow, and the effect of the throw is diminished as he recentres and there's no real incentive for him to move forward.

Perhaps the answer lies in this sensitivity. In putting enough energy forward to make a real opponent prompted to project and if he resists, then a broken elbow but not so much speed and energy to give him no opportunity to opt to roll forward.

It's like Uke has to choose either
a) broken elbow OR
b) forward projection

I suppose it's quite difficult to practice this in a dojo environment to see if it works in real life since nage has to be committed in his technique enough that if resistance is given, uke's elbow will be broken. If nage is still 'nice' about it, then there would not be sufficient impetus for a resisting opponent to fall forward.

In short, udekimenage is not a 'NICE' throw. It's you roll or you get injured. Compare this to iriminage or shihonage where the throw is inexorable and cannot be resisted once balance is broken but does not require any joint breaking for it to work. Here udekimenage has an element of 'u may be injured so you better roll'.

Thoughts on this?
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