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Old 05-14-2011, 01:15 PM   #115
Alberto_Italiano
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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Re: bad technique vs. resistance

Quote:
Dave de Vos wrote: View Post
Perhaps you an get some ideas from Enso Aikido who just wrote an introduction: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19836. They show some videos of aikido versus boxing techniques, like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zLat...er_profilepage and http://www.youtube.com/user/EnsoAiki.../0/q7fUDIvIVPI. It is not sparring or fighting, but it shows techniques that might work in these situations.

And perhaps some systema moves might fit in with aikido? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4vZC...eature=related and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd5rL...eature=related
Thank you for your videos.
Actually they are all good as fas as a theorical approach to incoming punches go.

Now, though this may work with an unexperienced puncher (a guy who never threw punches before, or a guy whos is an amateurish Thai Boxe trainee who believes he is tough because he never experienced a real competition), I am quite positive about what I am saying here, and the message I am trying to convey: you will never do anything like that to a boxer (you won't need a pro) who has say 30 official fights under his belt (this means about 3 years of training - or 2 too).

Actually, I know what's the reason for this.
A person who has never been on a ring with an experienced boxer, will never realize exactly how dangerous and difficult the situation can be - this aside from the fact that the real boxer will actually hit you: this alone makes a lot of difference for tori.

But the real reason is that a person who, unlike the videos, is punching you seriously, will never be so mild and slow. Those are not even punches. They can be the punches that I, after over 20 years without competitions and boxing, might sadly throw now. But 20 years ago, let me say: a boxer is fast, terribly fast, quick on foot, moves instantly in all directions, and his punches arrive with a rapidity that oftentimes you won't even see them.

Months ago I was in a dojo and there was this dan doing yokomenuchi to me. He lifted his whole arm and then attenpted to hit me.
I told him: don't lift your arm like that: if you do, I will know what your'e going to do, that's "un colpo telefonato" - I don't know if in Anglo-Saxon boxing jargon you have this Italian term: telefonato.
It translates: "(tele)phoned". The meaning is that if I can foresee what you're throwing at me, it's as if you were lifting a phone and calling me first to let me know what's coming

The guy was very perplexed - apparently he didn't even know the term (which in my opinion speaks a long story about how we never let our aikidokas train within a realistic setting). He repeated a few times to himself, mumbling, "telefonato?". He seemed pinched in his pride, though it was not my intention. My intention was to test something realistic.

He said: I'll show to you.

he lifted again his arm up to his head, and produced a yokomenuchi that, evidently, in his conception was "fast". I only had to see when he lifted, wait half a second and then lower.
I lowered twice because to an hook may always follow another hook and as I stood up I threw two direct punches with open hands at his chest.
In a real situation, that would have been a broken tooth. Koteageshi after that

The attacks we see in those videos are not like a real attack. Please keep in mind that I am not arguing or being polemical - I am trying, with great difficulty, to convey the fact that real competent punches are terribly fast. This in the interest of our Aikido efficacy.

The guy in the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zLatvvYg5I
if he attenpts that irimi to a competent boxer, let me say what happens: uke will go one step backward instantly, and tori will go to meet the ultrafast following right of his uke, and in meeting it, he will sum the force of uke's right direct blow with the force of his incoming irimi, and tori will see the mat. In Italian, that's "un colpo di incontro" (incontro=meet).
A competent uke won't "hug" him with his right arm: would hit him with a totally straight trajectory.

Imagine an uke like the guy with the blue shirt here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYFYSS1zI_8

he is not the best, yet I hope we can concur, at least, that it is dangerous and everything becomes instantly much less easy compared with theorical videos.

Last edited by Alberto_Italiano : 05-14-2011 at 01:25 PM.
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