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Old 04-22-2011, 10:11 AM   #236
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
OK David so how come Judo has spread so well and has become the dynamic "sport" that it has?
Tony, do you want me to go back in history and rewrite the beliefs these great masters held? We can lie and delude ourselves, but Ueshiba and Mochizuki were clear that budo will die if it becomes a sport. And they were right. And Kano really felt the same about Judo becoming an Olympic sport. Before that, the era of Sampo Toku and Kyuzo Mifune, judo was straddling a line between sport and budo but Kano understood that the sport element was degrading the budo content. That's why he created the classical budo research group, which led to his sending Mochizuki to train with Ueshiba. I understand that Tomiki went to Ueshiba independently. But Kano wanted to bring judo back from the danger of becoming total sport and reintroduce the classical samurai values and knowledge of the sword to what was becoming just another form of wrestling.

And as for something spreading far and wide, just think of WalMart, McDonalds and Kentucky Fried Chicken. Mass production does not mean mass quality. And there is definitely something missing from those mass distribution complexes that is similar to what has been lost in judo on the spiritual side.

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Yet aikido seems to be floundering (according to AJ's Stan Pranin)
What's wrong with that? The quality of the practice is far more important than the numbers practicing. Frankly, aikido could use some pruning. It's way bigger today than in Ueshiba's day and the quality was higher in Ueshiba's time, so maybe there's a relation.

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
As many clubs are experiencing a downturn in their numbers?
Again, the art does not depend on the number of people doing it badly. It depends on a fair number doing it excellently.

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Yet we see judo is flourishing, much like Tae kwon do which I believe is now an Olympic sport as well. Tae kwon do does well around this area.
I'm sure you have some McDonalds around the area, as well. What if all the pubs in England were replaced by McPubbys? What would be gained or lost by that? What if all the old nomikaya in Japan were replaced by Fudruckers and TGI Fridays? What if all the ryokans and onsen were replaced by Club Meds? Aikido is not a commercial product to be modified in whatever way sells best. It's a pure art meant to be pursued by and for the benefit of real artists--not beret-wearing wannabes.

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Had one or two come to vist and train a while as they were interested in the Kansetsu waza, throwing etc etc.....For me it has always been an uphill struggle financially to keep a dojo, one of the reasons I had to close down.....
Minoru Mochizuki was the only full-time martial artist I knew in Japan and he sometimes worked as a sort of chiropractor on the side. Tezuka was a city manager, Washizu worked for the railroad (like Saito), Kenmotsu was a farmer. Yoshida was a pharmacist. Even Kenji Ushiro owns a company and makes his living from that. The only other full-time martial artist I knew was not Japanese and he was independently wealthy, so he could do whatever he wanted.

Most of the people you will meet who are very advanced in martial arts have a stable, well-paying job that allows them to have a stable home, control their time and travel internationally at will. They spend enormous amounts of money to study under the top teachers and to maintain dojos where they teach. They usually don't make enough "profit" to sneeze at, IF they even break even.

On the other hand, you can get a TKD black belt in about three years, be 7th dan in about eight years, grind out black belts in a storefront, bill them electronically, and make $100,000.00 a year, if that's the kind of martial art you want.

What I teach, I teach for free, just to have someone to train with.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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