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Old 04-21-2011, 09:53 PM   #64
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
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Re: Is Aikiweb an open Aikido Forum ? Or is it a

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
"The things that pass for knowledge, I don't understand."

Of course, that doesn't mean it's not knowledge. It only means that the speaker doesn't understand.

As for people rambling on about the ins and outs of such and such, without getting to the point....maybe you're just not paying enough attention to appreciate the subtle points they're making. In any case, you have recourse to the Ignore button as well as everyone else does. So rather than being so judgmental ("eventually arrive there after much rear wind..."), why don't you just skip those posts or ignore the poster?

You're going to have to be specific, Tony. Whose aikido is becoming a "martial fart"? I hear this complaint a lot and I do understand that "some people's aikido" was never anything but flatulence. But it's wrong to label aikido itself that way because aikido itself has never changed. There's only the question of whether one has ever entered that "do" or is only imitating an appearance they saw somewhere. But if you're saying that aikido as it is generally taught has become something like that, then you need to provide examples, rather than just state your opinion. Otherwise, it's not really a statement at all, but just a blanket insult. And that never wins much acceptance. So where is this aikido that you perceive to be degenerating? How do you know it's degenerating?

As he great scientific genius Richard Feynman said, "What do you care what others think?" The last "fighting" type guy I dealt with, I stood in front of him in a natural stance and said, "Attack any way you want." I had no trouble dealing with his attack.

Have you ever heard that saying "Fools hear of the tao and laugh out loud"?

It's from Tao Te Ching, by Lao Tzu, section 41. I recommend it for you, especially. The quote ends, "If there were no laughter, the tao would not be what it is."

Yes. The famous "they".

Who are you talking about, Tony? Who is it that wonders why their "aikido" does not work to protect them?

I don't know of anyone in aikido who has had that complaint except people who gave up early because they thought they were already masters and knew how to "fix" an art they had never deeply studied.

But you seem to know some specific people with that complaint. So please share with us who they are and under what circumstances their aikido failed them. Or have you, maybe, spoken from a source other than "reality"?

What you say there is really no different from what I've heard far and wide, though you vary in how you define the terms. You deride others for not being "martial" even though you've never met them and usually haven't even seen them work.

I don't differentiate between "health" and "self-defense" as the nature of aikido encompasses both. The fact that you even perceive a difference indicates that you don't understand either side terribly well. There's nothing better for health than real aikido. And there's nothing better for self-defense, in my opinion.

That may be, but you implicitly tell us that you, yourself, are under no illusions, while everyone reading your posts (maybe only 99%) definitely perceive someone who is deep in the throes of delusion.

Tony...we have seen your video. If we watch that by the standards you have presented, we can't judge it very well. It certainly appears to be cooperative and very dance-like. Plus, all your ukes are kids. We don't see you operating with any full adults or any black belts. Last time I demonstrated, a few weeks ago, I had two men as ukes, each with twenty years of martial arts training--one being an avid student of Jeet Kune Do, the other with a long background in Chinese martial arts. Maybe I'm inclined to think you're doing a martial dance? Maybe you are in no position to judge anyone else's aikido?

Because of all this you get resistance from every side (except Henry, who's never met you, and Graham Christian, who resists no one). But you answer everyone with insults (except Henry).

Really, of everyone on this board, you seem to get out and get around least of all. Pretty much everyone who posts here gets around to seminars and meets other people and experiences other styles and teachers. From your posts, I get the impression that you haven't done anything like that in over 25 years. Have you?

The point is, you're making unsupported, general dismissals of thousands of people you've never met and have never seen. And yet you wonder why people seem to be closed to you and why you keep getting suspended from the forums.

Well, that's why.

In tao.

David
Well David lets see one of yours and then maybe we can judge you? , Those "kids" you refer to are in their twenties the lower grade was also a karate student and had also done a style of kung fu, the other one is a black belt unless you are colour blind? The two young ladies happen to be Japanese and have also studied karate...
I have also had gymnasts in my club who have also developed very strong bodies and can do things that I am not able, they were not able to resist my waza.... I find older people 30's and onwards are not so keen to join my dojo (before we closed down). In fact we were considered somewhat rough by most other clubs around the area and the fitness levels were too hard for most. Tomiki aikido is also a sport style as you may well know and uses resistance. Unfortunately the video was done as a promotion video for the students union of the Uni I was teaching at, so I had no control over its editing as it was done by the film and media studies group that came along to do it. For some strange reason they edited out the randori kyogi which was considered a bit too rough for a promotion video for the Union, one of the reasons I was not happy about staying there for much longer after being there from 1990 - 2007 amongst other things....
That take was done completely of the cuff with no prior warning so everything you see is done spontaneously. I put up so maybe you can to?
You say insults, I call them observances, believe me if I wanted to insult you I would have done that by now in a much bluer tone....

The last seminar I went too was in 1993, after that I felt things had changed for the worse, although there were some young fit and quite good players on that course they still had trouble handling me, I was in my forties then....

So lets see what you can do......?