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Old 04-21-2011, 07:31 PM   #62
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
Re: Is Aikiweb an open Aikido Forum ? Or is it a

Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
I'm just being the real me, no gang, no BS, no hidden agenda.... Excuse my ignorance, but I just cannot see where some of you are coming from at times, they ramble on about the in and outs of such and such without getting to the point, or eventually arrive there after much rear wind.
"The things that pass for knowledge, I don't understand."

Of course, that doesn't mean it's not knowledge. It only means that the speaker doesn't understand.

As for people rambling on about the ins and outs of such and such, without getting to the point....maybe you're just not paying enough attention to appreciate the subtle points they're making. In any case, you have recourse to the Ignore button as well as everyone else does. So rather than being so judgmental ("eventually arrive there after much rear wind..."), why don't you just skip those posts or ignore the poster?

Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
I am now getting to the point that "aikido" as a "martial" art is degenerating more into martial "fart"
You're going to have to be specific, Tony. Whose aikido is becoming a "martial fart"? I hear this complaint a lot and I do understand that "some people's aikido" was never anything but flatulence. But it's wrong to label aikido itself that way because aikido itself has never changed. There's only the question of whether one has ever entered that "do" or is only imitating an appearance they saw somewhere. But if you're saying that aikido as it is generally taught has become something like that, then you need to provide examples, rather than just state your opinion. Otherwise, it's not really a statement at all, but just a blanket insult. And that never wins much acceptance. So where is this aikido that you perceive to be degenerating? How do you know it's degenerating?

Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
I can see to some extent that it is most likely that most do it for health as they get older, and that is to me acceptable, but it's the young ones coming in that should be practising "hard" so that they are able to understand the "soft" This is what is worrying me about the state of aikido, because believe me most other MA or those of other persuasion think we are a laughing stock and who can blame them...?
As he great scientific genius Richard Feynman said, "What do you care what others think?" The last "fighting" type guy I dealt with, I stood in front of him in a natural stance and said, "Attack any way you want." I had no trouble dealing with his attack.

Have you ever heard that saying "Fools hear of the tao and laugh out loud"?

It's from Tao Te Ching, by Lao Tzu, section 41. I recommend it for you, especially. The quote ends, "If there were no laughter, the tao would not be what it is."

Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
What amazes me is that they then wonder why their "aikido" does not work to protect them, that is a shame for aikido, but most hide behind the word "aikido" because in reality they cannot produce the goods.
Yes. The famous "they".

Who are you talking about, Tony? Who is it that wonders why their "aikido" does not work to protect them?

I don't know of anyone in aikido who has had that complaint except people who gave up early because they thought they were already masters and knew how to "fix" an art they had never deeply studied.

But you seem to know some specific people with that complaint. So please share with us who they are and under what circumstances their aikido failed them. Or have you, maybe, spoken from a source other than "reality"?

Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Within one year of doing "aikido" I was able and reasonably good at protecting myself, even more so now after all these years. Maybe a tad slower than I used to be, but the feet don't go as fast as they used to, but I will still teach it as an art of self defence, as realistically as possible......
What you say there is really no different from what I've heard far and wide, though you vary in how you define the terms. You deride others for not being "martial" even though you've never met them and usually haven't even seen them work.

Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
I will also teach it for health, if required, but will make no bones about the fact it will not work if one "thinks" to use the health approach in a possible attack on ones person. That, I make abundantly clear as it would be a terrible lie to do otherwise.
I don't differentiate between "health" and "self-defense" as the nature of aikido encompasses both. The fact that you even perceive a difference indicates that you don't understand either side terribly well. There's nothing better for health than real aikido. And there's nothing better for self-defense, in my opinion.

Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
I really get the impression that maybe some of you are still under that illusion and still need a reality check from time to time.
That may be, but you implicitly tell us that you, yourself, are under no illusions, while everyone reading your posts (maybe only 99%) definitely perceive someone who is deep in the throes of delusion.

Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
If you are, please get real as I will repeat, and will keep repeating that you are not doing "aikido" you are doing martial dance and that is all there is to it.....
Tony...we have seen your video. If we watch that by the standards you have presented, we can't judge it very well. It certainly appears to be cooperative and very dance-like. Plus, all your ukes are kids. We don't see you operating with any full adults or any black belts. Last time I demonstrated, a few weeks ago, I had two men as ukes, each with twenty years of martial arts training--one being an avid student of Jeet Kune Do, the other with a long background in Chinese martial arts. Maybe I'm inclined to think you're doing a martial dance? Maybe you are in no position to judge anyone else's aikido?

Because of all this you get resistance from every side (except Henry, who's never met you, and Graham Christian, who resists no one). But you answer everyone with insults (except Henry).

Really, of everyone on this board, you seem to get out and get around least of all. Pretty much everyone who posts here gets around to seminars and meets other people and experiences other styles and teachers. From your posts, I get the impression that you haven't done anything like that in over 25 years. Have you?

The point is, you're making unsupported, general dismissals of thousands of people you've never met and have never seen. And yet you wonder why people seem to be closed to you and why you keep getting suspended from the forums.

Well, that's why.

In tao.


"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"