good manners and civility please
Let's not get too hot under the collar when other users put forward views other than our own.
From what I have seen across the Forum and different threads, this healthy disagreement (which must take place if the Forum is to have any value at all) is usually done with reserve and politeness.
if as you say:
" And here lies the nonsense in trying to "discuss" aikido with people."
If it is a nonsense to discuss, then why on earth are you here? Is it not a futile exercise for you to discuss issues if you then get upset by people politely disagreeing with you?
"everyone wants to take something and stretch it to the literal extremes
and it's such BS. You can't discuss aikido online because everyone
wants to one-up the next person with some witty comment, instead of just coming out and saying they totally disagree with what someone says, that way they still feel aikido-PC."
I am astounded by your tone and agree with Mikey, you need to be more of a gentleman. I have objectively read what you (and everyone else) have written on this thread, and I have to say that I totally disagree with everything you have said thus far. Now that is not being particularly aikido-PC or civilised, and I'd wager that deep-down you don't like it much.
If I have to be brutally honest in putting my opinion forward (an it is only that, an opinion), I had to fight to stay awake a certain points during the entire thread because I personally find the whole thing quite meaningless. But propriety dictates that I put forward my views with tact and diplomacy and keep my mouth shut if I have nothing of value to contribute instead of shooting people down that I don't agree with.
This time however, I have purposely departed from the Aikido-PC and civilised attitude you seem to be criticising and have given my honest view in a manner that you say you would prefer to hear. I hope you (and others) are not offended by my honesty, and if you are, well that's too bad.
to address your original question: I think that the level of skill required to deal with an aggressor without injuring them is high. That does not mean that it is impossible, even at different levels of experience. Let's not forget such factors as luck, degree of aggression shown, mental and physical state of attacker and attacked etc.
Each situation is different, and the degree of intensity in the applied response to aggression I don't think can be easily quantified.
If some guy rushes at me with a broken bottle, and I move out of the way with movements I have learned in my years of training, so that he splits his head open on the wall, does that mean to say that I have failed in being able to deal with him without injury? Or I am exonerated from blame for his injuries, since he has, by attacking me in the first place , injured himself?
To be honest, I don't think there is any one answer to your question.
As a further general observation that has nothing to do with Aikido or self-defence applications. Japanese restaurants and sushi bars a very popular here these days.
The other day I was chatting to a Sushi Chef who told me that it takes at least 15 years to graduate under the tutelage of a Master Chef. Now I can buy a sushi-making set at my local supermarket, and can cut fish and make rice and end up with something that may look like proper sushi. But would I serve it to discerning Japanese guests?
I wouldn't dare!
[Edited by chris on September 20, 2000 at 09:03am]