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Old 03-17-2011, 09:29 PM   #21
future sandwich
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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Re: irimi nage spinning

Thanks everyone, this thread is a goldmine for me! Technical discussions here are amazing.

Quote:
Pauliina Lievonen wrote: View Post
I suspect your problem might not be in the steps but in the timing of them, and possibly in getting off your own center line as well.

After the first 180 degree turn, it's very very common to let uke continue a little bit too far along the turn before attempting to throw. Then the solution to that is sought in turning even further, but that leads to the kinds of problems you describe.
This was definitely a problem I wrestled with for a while Pauliina and while I can hardly say I'm immune to it now, I'm certainly very aware of it.

It is certainly possible to throw from a single tenkan or as in some old videos of OSensei, with barely a turn at all. However, assuming that a continuous rotation is a valid option (say uke is remaining hunched over perhaps, all sorts of things happen when someone is unbalanced and stumbling around), and given that I've seen and received irimi nage including even 360 degrees of turn, I'd like to understand it but am stumped as to how to continue the turn well. Stepping forward at the point I mention is moving against uke, back requires pulling uke, and I'd like to avoid a shuffle.

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote: View Post
If your experience is just within one 'flavour' of Aikido then you may have started to see the range of variations...if you haven't then it may seem almost sacriligious that another group may perform a beloved technique differently.
As a beginner I remember coming from a Ki Society-influenced aikikai dojo and being utterly scandalized when I practiced katate dori kokyu ho at an Iwama style dojo! Yes the variations are innumerable, but I have seen this very rotational irimi nage performed once or twice and would love to be able to understand it.

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote: View Post
So I'll offer that you use tenkan when uke turns towards you to continue 'the fight'. So instead of imposing a movement on uke and forcing him around...instead use his movements against him
* don't force a tenkan on uke ...blend your tenkan with his moves
* let his momentum take his legs past his head - destroy his shisei while keeping your own.
This I think is a real key; not imposing a movement on uke but performing it when uke continues to come at your center. It rings very true and I am very excited to take it to the mat.

Quote:
Jonathan Guzzo wrote: View Post
This is interesting. At our dojo, we don't pivot after irimi. We snug uke's head to our shoulder and drop our forward foot back at 90 degrees. Then we step straight through with the same foot. When it's done well, it's like dropping into a deep, dark hole.

The 180 turn is amazing, but I can never seem to carry it off. Uke often ends up spinning out. Indeed, when I take ukemi from someone executing iriminage with a 180, I often feel that I get my balance back and can reverse. I imagine that's often an illusory feeling.
I love ukemi to the throw you mention above! I have also received the 180+ degree one and I can assure you that at no point did I feel like I was at all close to regaining my balance. In fact that's one of the things I'm searching for; when I experienced this longer throw the rotation I was going under was smooth and consistent and unrelenting - when I try and perform it it ends up being quite jerky at the point I've described.

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
1) Take a look at Gozo Shioda's basic form of shomen uchi Irimi-nage ni in any of his texts. Break the waza down into that simple form...maintaining your posture, breaking uke's posture. Use movements of irimi (shuffle enter), tenkan (pivot without letting uke's head go past your back shoulder), body change (turn on the balls of the feet, from weight on knee closest to uke to weight on the other kneee), body change back with atemi.
If I'm looking at the same thing, this is the shorter version which I'm at least theoretically comfortable with.

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Oh, during all of this notice where uke's head is relative to his feet, and at what points you feel like you are sinking and at what points *you* feel like *you* are rising will also be good. Remember that if *you* are connected uke sinks with *you*, and rises with *you*. And I dont necessarily mean you excessively bending your knees or jumping in a noticable way.
This is great! Another thing I'm excited about trying out on the mat.

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
if you have a technical issue, why not ask your teacher at the time? They can actually see what is needed to change what is happening. How do we know if the OP is describing the issue correctly?
A very good point; unfortunately I'm in Cambodia outside the capital, with only intermittent access to a real teacher, and with way more questions that fit within my limited sensei-time.

I also wanted to add something that a user sent me regarding this which I've found to be really interesting; he reminded me to focus on unbalancing uke to the rear. I find this is easy to forget as you appear to lead uke around nose first, but is the essential nature of the kuzushi in irimi nage right from the first motion. I'm looking forward to getting back to the dojo with all of this!

Last edited by future sandwich : 03-17-2011 at 09:41 PM.
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