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Old 02-25-2011, 10:02 AM   #28
JW's Avatar
Location: Escondido CA USA
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 560
Ride the chaos.

Hi Tenyu-
I've never heard anyone who claims to do an "internal art" say that collusion and a certain type of postural habit is REQUIRED for aikido (or Ikeda's aikido) to operate. It seems to be an even stronger statement than Michael Varin saying that the collusion was making it a bit easier for Ikeda. At any rate, Ledyard Sensei's more substantial experience with Ikeda Sensei seems to speak to a reduced dependence on collusion, not augmented, relative to what one might expect from looking.
Anyway, you called my partner non-collusive, in that he wasn't standing right, connecting his arm to center right, etc:
Tenyu Hamaki wrote: View Post
Since your video uke is untrained his center is disconnected from his own arm... All of uke needs to be alive, give very clear power applications, and move integrally to his center in order for nage to achieve any of the easy looking techniques Ikeda does.
So, why was it so easy for me to take his balance, even in the high resistance portion of the video? If I am not depending on certain kinds of attacks, yet I am successfully doing 1/100th of what Ikeda is doing.. then I remain unconvinced about the "value" of collusion in acheiving kuzushi on contact.

The idea of someone being immune to Ikeda's technique because he has certain martial stylistic traits sounds wrong to me. Like defeating a no-touch throw by alternately lifting your big toes.

Although I agree with you about proper timing in terms of carrying out an interaction properly, I am in this video only establishing that interaction, not cultivating it into throws beyond that initial, establishing moment of aiki.

It took me a moment, but I think I see where you're going with that last line. I don't think aikido avoids chaos, I think in aikido we ride the chaos. I'm supposing this is in fact part of the let-go-and-let-the-kami's-will-direct-things Way. (I think that's a direct O-sensei quote, I just can't remember which English translation that was..) The process that brings an attacker down in aiki a chaotic process of collapse. Nage supplies the constraints and chaos determines the exact outcome within nage's constraints. Thus for O-sensei there were no techniques, things just happened, and thus he "received" techniques from the kamisama (from the chaos). Those became our techniques, because in O-sensei's opinion, our repeating of those movements was an honor to the kami who created those techniques spontaneously, through his body and mind. Thus doing techniques was a form of worship, more than a practice to teach you to become able to force those techniques to happen whenever you wanted, as predeterminations of outcome in martial encounters. That's my current thinking anyway, could be BS.
At some point if I say god is chaos and you say everything is predetermined by gods... well things get so far out there that disagreement could dissolve.
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