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Old 02-10-2011, 06:20 PM   #42
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Re: Spiritual Discipline Driils-Ki (ip?)

Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Let me try a different approach with your terms
There is no one I know of who will accurately define and reach an undesputed agreement on what is supposed to be:
old aiki or old IP
juxtaposed to Daito ryu's aiki or IP
justaposed to Ueshiba's aiki or New IP
That was why i said you were painting yourself into a corner. You took on a very large topic.

It doesn't matter to me what he was saying. He was doing jujutsu. There are dozens of people here who would agree with that assessment as well. Please note" I did not say anything about what he can or cannot do or does or does not know...or anything else. Just that what he was doing can be shown instantly. Anyone can be taught to relax and redirect a straight vector force-it doesn't make it aiki or Ki or whatever.
As far as words go:
You can also see some very high level jujutsu being done on video by Don Angeir within which he said..." crap.".
So there are a couple of guys with different opinions..
Lets assume that other than these jujutsu principles, there are many things that teacher knows that he is not showing. Let's assume that there are many other things I know that I am not saying.

Thats not condusive to a good discussion. No one here is an expert okay? It's not a contest...
If we end up disagreeing, let's do so as gentlemen
Just say'n
Dan. I assure you I'm not in any corner, I'm open and free thank you. I do Aikido. The guy in that video does Aikido. Many people do the different styles of Aikido. No confusion.
Some feel they are missing something. Why? Why do they feel that? Well it could be for all kind of reasons no different to someone studying any subject and feeling stuck or lost or even betrayed. I have helped many people with their studies, people who have given up on maths or whatever subject they are or used to study but gave up.
Every time I take them back over what they were studying and find where they got stuck, where it didn't make sense etc. and proceed to clear up their problem with the subject and they end up reinvigorated and understanding and back in harmony with the subject and indeed the studying of it. Back on path.
Why am I telling you this? Because it's never the subjects fault it is always the fault of the student. How do I differerenciate? Well I know the phenomena of a student with a problem compared to a student who understands. A student who has not studied properly BLAMES. The student who hasn't studied properly blames all kind of things from the cat to too much noise to others etc. They then make it all so complicated. Another phenomenon is that they may just go in to apathy on the subject and give up and believe they're too stupid.
Now the guy in the video has a running commentary on what he's doing yet somehow you are not interested in what he is saying and therefore assume you know better. Amazing.
A guy is teaching what he knows, using communication, the major tool of teaching, and you don't want to listen? You just want to pick out bits to either prove him wrong or prove he's doing something else? I find that fascinating yet quite common for those who don't understand but think they do. Therefore I cannot take your 'discussion' seriously thus far.
Let's not just assume shall we, let's say when we are assuming and when we are not. Where we do understand and where we don't. A man who can DO comfortably with absolutely no problem, no confusion, no misunderstanding is indeed an expert. I am an expert in tying up my shoelace as are you. So there are experts here in various aspects of Aikido and no doubt in various aspects of ip.
So much significance is placed on saying when a person or even self IS an expert or Master of something that it becomes a mustn't say word. Well not me. I define what one is and therefore can say who is, it's quite simple really. A master of an art is a master of an art, what's wrong with that? Let me enlighten you.
When learning something you go through stages of learning, building up understandings and practicing those understandings in the real world. Thus you gain ability. Then you use that ability and come across various times where the use of it didn't do the job so you review and learn more and wind up more able, your ability increases. Finally for those who learn properly you reach a condition where it doesn't matter what the universe brings to you in that particular area of expertize, you are confident and able to handle it with ease. That is a master. A car mechanic who looks foreward to whatever is brought to him to fix, is totally at ease with it, enjoys it, never complains and kicks the cars, handles all cars like they are his children or long lost friends is a master orf his craft. Only the self proclaiming analytical knowalls can come along and say he isn't because blah blah blah. Amusing.
Now that doesn't mean he is still not learning believe it or not for most people falsely believe that a master now doesn't need to learn any more and I'm sure if anyone is reading this they will think I'm contradicting myself but actually I am not.
Notice when I gave the example of a person using his ability he comes across times when he has to review and learn and improve that ability. Well a Master does the same but from a totally, more advanced, more aware viewpoint. Notice that a master of a trade or art is totally in tune with the area of expertize. The master car mechanic with all cars to him being like long lost friends needing help. He is completely centered, he is fully blending with the car as it arrives. He has only compassion for the vehicle. He can turn on the engine and listen, be at one with, virtually feel it's history. No running to look things up in a book or go through loads of memory files in his mind. He has hara, kokyu etc. in his universe of car mechanics. Thus he can notice and detect new interesting things, new learnings on the path of the master.
So don't be shy now.If you can welcome and demonstrate on anybody your area of expertize, totally at ease, no problem no matter who it is, then you are a master, maybe a beginning one, of your art. You have made it yours. Now if you can teach from the same viewpoint and abilty then you are a master teacher of it too.
So a master of one style saying there is no such thing as Ki, or that Ki is a load of crap is a piece of nonsense. He is a master of his own way and knows nothing about that other way. So your logic is at fault when you say this guys Aikido isn't Aikido and then call it jujutsu, which you no doubt have experience with, and then add on to that therefore that a master of jujutsu said ki is crap. You may think that's logical, I don't. Even if it was HIS style of jujutsu then as his style is to do with Ki then you couldnt compare it to a style where there is no Ki could you?
Plus why are you saying let's disagree like gentlemen? I am a gentleman. Any disagreements I have with you thus far are none with you. I may disagree with some of what you say and at length show you my different view. None of what I say is belittling of you as a person or indeed martial artist, none of what I say insults your charachter, none of what I say is rude. So what's with the implication?
So there you are mr anderson, oops sorry I slipped into the matrix there, I must remember to take the right pill.
Have fun. Nice talking to you.
Regards. G.
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