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Old 02-08-2011, 12:54 PM   #23
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Re: Spiritual Discipline Driils-Ki (ip?)

Jon Reading wrote: View Post
I think we have some exercises that train us to feel internal structure and use that structure to create power. My weak theory is under scrutiny, but I'll stick to my guns for this point that aikido does have some internal/core structure training. I don't know if I would go as far as to say it was internal power/strength training.

To me, it seems a big difference comes is the fact that IP people have exercises for training and they know what they are doing and what is the purpose of the exercise. Aikido, on the other hand, has a collection of exercises for what purpose most cannot accurately describe. The fact that we cannot classify anything in the video as internal strength training says that the video does not teach internal strength training.

We are granted a period of time to figure out what we are doing and how to share this information with others. After that period expires we either need to be able to adequately explain what is going on, or we have not yet learned that piece of the puzzle. For me, this argument extends into the "creepy" stuff too. Now, we may be able to label that incomplete training ("spiritual - contents under scrutiny"), place it aside and keep training. For the record, this is one of those holding places for the real "you need to feel this" aikido. We need to eventually open that box and better classify that content.

In aikido, we sometimes settle for vaguery as a satisfactory answer to some of the more heady stuff. "Move your ki" only works as an answer for so long. After a while if you cannot explain to me what that phrase means, I will look for myself and find someone who can. I give exception in this comment to those issues which arrive out of cultural or language miscommunication.

In this sense, our technique has an omote and ura (in the old sense). We can copy what others do and replicate the action; but without the substance of the technique (the "why") we will never learn more that the outer shape of the technique. To really learn technique you need to also learn the ura, the "why" the technique works. Again, aikido seems to settle for simply learning the shape and not digging deeper to make the technique theirs with true understanding of what is going on and the ability to share that knowledge with others.

I think this response may be slightly tanget to the thread, but I thinks it important that we place the proper emphasis on those roles sharing information with those absorbing information.
Freakanomics is a great book that looks into the difference between coorelative and causal relationships. I think we have a lot of coorelative relationships in aikido...
Hi Jon. Aikido settling for the shape and not digging deeper may be the apparency, as in most of life where most people do the same. However there are also no doubt many who can explain the why I suspect.
The real problem as I see it a lack of reality on what Aikido can be and a reverting to the 'old' ways of Aiki pre Aikido.
'Aiki' existed for centuries before O'Senseis' Aikido and thus the purpose of practice was changed even though done through the same techniques.
The ip I read about to me is not much different to the old Aiki as in aikijujutsu or indeed in all past samurai training.
Thus modern Aikido will end up no different to prior O'Sensei and may as well be called a version of Aikijutsu for the great samurai of the past, the great martial artists of the past from various martial arts be they in china or wherever all learned of these principles of internal power so it's all well and good but it's nothing new.
There were in fact many warrior monks in the history of Japan but this minor detail has been superceded by the glamorization of shaolin, which I also love by the way. These warrior monks who practiced these internal power ways were often hired by samurai 'clans' in times of war as they were often seen as superior warriors.
But all said and done unless a person understands the change O'Sensei made as to purpose then they will never learn his Aikido and therefore the practice of the exercises he gave will not be understood properly and the why will not be seen.
Your post was good I thought by the way. I just offer my view.
Regards. G.
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