But thats my point. They're all over the map, just like any traditional budo training. They're only going to make progress with good information and actual work. I have met students of the IP coaches and many Aiki legends and of ICMA legends and they.....
are all over the map. They range and feel like anything from your average high school wrestler who NEVER let go of muscle... to people....well... making progress!
I just don't always assign their failure to the teacher (like some do and gossip about it in private). I think many time it's on the student. I have asked people right after I told them something and it's like it went right over their head. I have been in any number of seminars when I was learning where I was THEE ONLY one there with a notebook. People not getting it is a constant in budo...we all know that. So why is this any different at all? I don't think that will ever change
I think students are a better test (still not definitive, just better)., Ask if a teacher or IP coach has anyone they developed they can produce.
I absolutely think the student has to take the onus and responsibility for the progress they make - regardless of who they train with or are associated with. I think even as the "details" of how this stuff works gets fleshed out in Western terms, I think the pedagogy of how it's best transmitted will hopefully also become more clear AND then the requirements and talents that will make the best students.