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Old 01-13-2011, 10:48 AM   #161
Scott Harrington
Location: Wilmington, De
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 65
United_States
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 18

TIE 19! Tie 19! Tie 19! Jonesing, man. I got to have my fix. Mr. Goldsbury, waiting, waiting.

I honorably and humbly disagree with the as ever erudite Ellis:\

1. Kano says Saigo Shiro tires easily. From this we can deduce that he had no training?

"And Sokaku used to give short lessons, about 10 or 15 minutes each, 4 or 5 times a day. " (DR Aiki Jujutsu by Okamoto, pg. 17) So according to Kano's standards, Takeda Sokaku wasn't very good (because he didn't teach long), but he did say that Takeda's art (thru Ueshiba) was true Budo. AAAAHHHHH! Subtle neural rewiring.

Occasionally we do Gracie J.J. (very simplified curriculum) in class and afterwards any subtle techniques are difficult because -- different operating systems. Not better (well maybe) but different.

The Kodokan system under Kano stressed competition, a restricted curriculum, no wrist techniques and elimination of some dangerous techniques (Judo can STILL hurt you). Thus aerobic capacity came to a forefront in matches. While Takeda Sokaku certainly got his aerobic points with his walking I don't see him running marathons or doing wind sprints.

And let me repeat, Sagawa DID, repeat DID say that Takeda Sokaku said he learned aiki from Saigo Tanonmo (Takeda also said this to his son). Now Sagawa may not have believed him, but HE SAID IT.

2. Prehensile toes -- uh did he have to wear those special orthopedic zori? It is a Daito ryu technique, not an anatomical oddity.

3. Doing research on American Civil War stuff, I have traveled to several ‘home' locations. While I have learned neat and additional things, I am always surprised that I know more than the people actually living in the houses that were owned by Civil War generals. In many cases their information is wrong.

There is a language barrier. There is a lack of records. I have been to a Police Jujutsu tournament (back when Gracie J.J. was starting to make open inroads, saw a beautiful jumping aerial arm bar!) There were very few people in attendance. But someone probably still talks about that great technique done there. Let's be honest, more people know about the characters on ‘Glee' than know how good Ellis is at Araki ryu. By about a factor of 100,000. Or more.

4. Tanomo got the mojo. See end of 1. How many people know that Ho Chi Minh practiced Tai Chi Chuan (and supposedly while in America collected newspaper headlines about black lynchings in the south). Takeda Sokaku said Tanomo only taught two people. ‘Uh, Uh, hey, I know this really secret art and I only taught two people but I want the wooooorrrrrld to know.'

5. Regarding the Aizu info, I have before mentioned, especially information from "Remembering Aizu, the Testament of Shiba Goro", the Boshin War and such is a gold mine to find the roots of Daito-ryu. Language barrier.

8. While it may be hidden in plain sight, it is still hidden. Saigo Tanomo taught TWO people supposedly.

9. Xenophobic language. Deal with it.

The Mountain Wind in autumn time
Is well called hurricane
It hurries cane and twig along
And whirls them o'er the plain
To scatter them again.
9th century poem, Yashuide

Yama arashi (Mountain Storm) is a Daito ryu technique. Other arts (like Kodokan Judo) may have similar named techniques but so what. I talked to a sumo practitioner (Sumo is not a martial art -- it is an eating disorder!) about some of their techniques: same but with different names in Judo.

One person says it is Yama otoshi from the Sekiguchi ryu of Jujutsu (described as haraigoshi / seoinage), while Danzan ryu is a collar break, Obata sensei has his version, Bernie Lau describes the DR version as a sort of uchimata -- inner thigh throw with a ‘rokyo' wrist lock.

While showing it to a high-ranking Hakko ryu instructor (a derivative of DR), he immediately knew it as a henka off a wrist trap. When this version was shown by a senior to him, they commented to use a ‘sweep' to enhance the technique.

Whether a ‘true' technique or a modification by Saigo Shiro to handle the two handed uniform grab in the Kodokan Jujutsu system (which prohibited wrist techniques), it is a DR technique. I can send you the page number but the book is already out-of-print.

Scott Harrington

P.S. Yama arashi is also the name for the porcupine (similar creature), thus a truly prickly waza.
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