Thread: Ichi no ken ?
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Old 12-06-2010, 08:46 PM   #55
ravenest
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

Quote:
Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
Hello, glad to help!

To clarify where this is coming from, I am a 4th kyu learning this from a handful of yudansha in NYC where Sugano did not do a ton of weapons work. My knowledge is seriously limited--you have the real source in Jikou, who came here in summer at the time of Sugano Shihan's memorial and taught at couple of classes that focused on this work.

That said, I did do ichi no ken on Thursday.
Lucky you! I went to training last night and no ichi no ken for me (no weapons at all actually ... for a while). I finally got to watch that clip, yes EXCELLENT this is exactly what I am talking about.

Quote:
Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
Ichi no ken: Teacher and student are in hamni (Sugano goes over this concept extensively in youtube clip) and student breaks maai with a direct ski or thrust. Teacher steps back and anticpates student's next move, which is kiritske (sp?), a strike to the head, by blocking and checking the student's accuracy and maai.
Yes, he says it is a block but "blocking is practice only". See how at times he is extending the sword forward on an angle (not at 90 deg to the side), at times he just holds it there (near 90 deg. to side), but this is where he takes one hand off, holds the others sword, raises and lowers it, checks mai, etc and other training helps and hints. Then he cuts back.

My issue is this is seen as block by some ie. they do it quickly, no chance to check accuracy and other things and then come straigt back with a cut, which - under these circumstances is very hard to keep out of distance. If that was the case I'd be in, cutting and out of there and bugger checking accuracy and technique.

Even so, I notice Sensai Sugano's partner in this demo also seems to have trouble getting back out of range after Sensai cuts back, there is a distinct 'double-shuffle' there. That was annoying me as it seemed the only solution I could come up with.

I also loved what he said about making an opening to recieve a specific attack and then countering that attack - as a technique - instead of just fighting. I also encounter this with empty hand; I was training with a karate-ka, he is showing me some of his style and I am showing him some Shorin-ryu, we are practicing defense from head attacks, his turn, he is all guarded up, my turn is making him so discombobulated he has to stop, as I am not standing there with my arms and hands up protecting my head "Why dont you do that, I am told to start this way by my instructor." my response was "because I WANT you to attack my head, then I know what might be coming, The way you stand its too hard for me to attack your head, so I'd come in with a faint to the head and kick you in the gonzales while all your defense is up there." (unless he's good with leg blocks )

Quote:
Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
Then teacher returns with a strike, which student parries. Teacher goes under the student's blade and skis, student changes hamni and parries again, and then thrusts deeply to force teacher to move back. This kind of resets maai and forces a conclusion.
Yes! This is the part that I was 'sucked in' to; this forcing the 'teacher' to move back then drawing away and offering the arm seemed to have some 'gravity' attached to it, the 'student' forcing back and then retreating a bit, a bit like a wave braking on the shore and running back ... sorta
Quote:
Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
Student raises and presents an opening--sets a trap if you will. Teacher goes for the wrist of student, student steps off the line and delivers a strike to the head. Teacher dies, student lives.

If you are learning weapons from Jikou Sugano Sensei then surely this is what you are learning...
yep! Surely it is. Thanks for posting and re-affirming to me Im not (that) crazy
Quote:
Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
Have fun, this type of weapons training is really inspiring me right now.
Deborah
Yep, its great isnt it!

My understanding is that No 2 is the same as No 1 but there is no 'block', teacher steps back and meets the cut. I like that one, student can really get into the attack ... and now the cut back at the student, at this point (IMO) makes a lot more sense.

I'd love your take on 3. My understanding is teacher goes under the students blade and parries and then steps forward with a cut to the knee (ie no back and forward ski but one ski followed by knee attack)

Ermmm, better leave number 4 for now ... this is where confusion really set in ... but I think I have worked out, its just others disagree with me (which is fine IF they can offer a solution or a movement as to what it might be -I just get really annoyed by the: "Thats not it." 'Okay what is it then" 'I dont know." )
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