Thread: Ichi no ken ?
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:31 AM   #16
Cliff Judge
Dojo: Aikido Shobukan Dojo
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

Quote:
Peter Gröndahl wrote: View Post
I think a bit of the problem lies in the definition of aikiken. When I read aikiken, I think of the sets of solo and paired excercises put together by Saito sensei.
When I use the term aikiken, I mean "sword kata that are designed to express and teach Aikido principals." I'm an ASU guy so I am more familiar with Saotome Sensei's kumi tachi than Saito Sensei's. I think a lot of folks apply the term aikiken more generally than to just Saito Sensei's stuff.

Quote:
Jakob Blomquist wrote: View Post
One should distinguish between Kashima Shin ryu and Kashima Shinto ryu and not confuse the two. The former a 500 year old school popularized by Kunii Zen'ya. Inaba Minoru (sword teacher of e.g. Tissier shihan) studied it for about a year, and NEITHER are formally connected with the ryu.
Inaba Minoru apparently had quite a close relationship with Kunii, and it seems it was a fairly intense year of training. Just saying.

Quote:
Jakob Blomquist wrote: View Post
The latter ryu has an unbroken succession line going back to Bokuden Tsukuhara (a student of Kashima Shinto Ryu). In the 1930's Ueshiba signed a Keppan, blood oat, together with his son, Kisshomaru, and a deshi Akazawa. An instructor from the school would then teach at the old Kobukan dojo, where Osensei would observe intently. The school's first ken vs. ken kata (Kumitachi no Ichi) bears the same name as the first kumitachi of Saito, and is virtually identical in form. Many of the following kata also bears resemblance to the aikiken kumitachi.
Thanks for the validation of that thought.

Tsukahara Bokuden was a student of Katori Shinto ryu and the founder of Kashima Shinto ryu.

Quote:
Jakob Blomquist wrote: View Post
With that in mind it's good to remember that Inaba's (and Tissier's) Kashima Shinryu derived sword work has been heavily influenced by his long time practice in aikido and is probably consistent with aikido principles in a way that the actual Kashima Shinryu (or Kashima shinto ryu) is not!
Right....so its aikiken now. Informed / flavored by some principals of the Kashima Shinryu.

(Similar to how Kashima Shinryu was informed by principals of Katori Shinto ryu and Shinkage ryu. )

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
Please be aware: The mainline of KSR denies that the derivate taught by Inaba sensei has the right, to be named Kashima shin ryu. Please respect this issue.
No. I am not beholden to the Kashima Shinryu and I will say anything I want to about their art, whether or not it is practiced under their auspices.

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
No, there is no influence of the kashima shin ryu derivate as taught by Inaba sensei on aiki ken.
Where or when it ist taught, ken jutsu normally will be distinguished from aiki ken.

Yes, the ken of Inaba Sensei is practiced in the Yamgauchi - line. But it is distinguished from aiki ken which is also practiced.
I think we're having the branding issue again. Here's what I propose:

kenjutsu - kata and waza performed to study how to kill a man with a sword
aikiken - kata and waza that are performed to study aikido principals

Therefore, if Inaba Sensei bows to the shomen and claps twice, then any practice of swordwork that he leads the class in until the next time he bows to the shomen and claps twice, is aikiken.

I think if you guys want to reserve the term "aikiken" to mean "Saito Sensei's aikiken," you should at least start capitalizing it.

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
I would really like it, but I am sure those students like Tissier or Inaba (he isn't aikikai shihan?) or some other can be seen as represantetives of the mainstream within the aikikai /aikiken.
I think you mean "I am not sure what Tissier and Inaba are doing can be seen as mainstream aikiken" and I don't see why not. its at least as relevant to many of us as what Saito's folks are doing.

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
Yamaguchi sensei himself didn't practice KSR at all. Neither as an official student nor learning systematically from Inaba (who was his student). He himself did some Yagyu ryu ken jutsu as a young man and "was able to pick up teh movements and integrate them".
There's no such thing as "Yagyu ryu kenjutsu," FYI. Do you mean Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, or Yagyu Shingan Ryu?

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
The KSR main line says that Inaba sensei has only the permission to teach some basic kata ( and not KSR) and to do this only at Meiji jingu.
That's really neat when you think about it. Its kind of like how O Sensei broke from Takeda and only took the first set of Daito ryu kata with him.

Last edited by Cliff Judge : 11-24-2010 at 09:40 AM.
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