Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote:
But... what if Ueshiba contemporaries were not as good/skilled as we believe they were?
|
Well, they impressed the heck out of the US soldiers who arrived there after the war--and those Japanese were just the survivors. Many of the best were killed in combat. And a lot of those had been trained by Morihei Ueshiba at the Naval Academy.
Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote:
You surely are aware that Mochizuki Sensei found aikido (the pre-war he studied under O Sensei) lacking when accepting challenges from french wrestlers, boxers or savateurs ( see video of french savateurs in 1934) and needing judo (see video of judo in the 20's). Observe the skill level of both savateurs and judoka (video of boxers and wrestlers of that era are available too) and make a comparison with the skill level of todays practitioners of the same art. And yes, I know Mochizuki came to Europe after WWII. |
Well, Mochizuki Sensei didn't say he lost to any of those folks. He just thought aikido would be improved by broadening the range of attacks against which it would be practiced. He had a lot of interesting stories about those times, but in his mind, from early on, aikido included
everything up to and including artillery. And he took on any and all challengers (except the guy who was known to bring throwing knives to wrestling matches). But he never considered himself to have surpassed Morihei Ueshiba.
And while standards have risen in he decades since the war, those advances were built on the teachings and innovations of people like Ueshiba and Mochizuki. There's every reason to believe that Morihei would have kept pace, if not for the inevitable decline of years. Like Dan Harden, he was a monster for training and he didn't rest on the standards of yesteryear.
Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote:
Ueshiba was awesome by japanese standards at that time, and japanese budoka were awesome by western standards at that time.
|
That's my point. Everyone respected the Japanese fighting man at that time and the Japanese fighting man respected Morihei Ueshiba.
Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote:
Today's standards... well, are a bit higher.
|
Yes, but again, those standards are built on the old standards. Morihei would be about 130 years old today, so of course I'm not saying he'd be beating up on the champions of UFC or K1 if he were still alive. But there's no reason to think that, all things being equal, he wouldn't have risen to the top in today's world just as he did in history. His attributes put him at the top in a world where the stakes were not belts and trophies but literally life and death. So I think it was him plus his training that resulted in his legend among men who were legendary in their own right. And I think few people in today's world--even the top fighters--would outdo him.
Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote:
Were those men (the US soldiers who came to Japan after the war--DO) skilled?
|
We're talking about military police, among others, who brought down the Nazis and the Japanese forces over four years of hell. Whether you would call them "skilled," I'm not sure, but many were veterans of hand-to-hand warfare and they weren't push-overs. Yet there's a famous video of Ueshiba allowing several MPs to try to take him and he disappeared from their grips with ease.
Again, many of these were the ones who brought arts like karate back to the US--because they were so impressed by the Japanese teachers. And the Japanese teachers? They were astounded by Morihei Ueshiba...
And to suggest that Morihei's abilities resulted from brain or nerve damages and hallucinations...well...it just doesn't sit well with me.
Maybe I'm wrong. I just don't think so.
Best to you.
David