DH

Well I hate wading into that very unpopular and highly prejudicial topic, of IP/aiki and actually being able to fight with it.. It's like trying to debate the beauty of your loved one. You could line up ten thousand objective opinions that will never change the one. There's no winning that debate, neither is there in a review of martial artists.

Most do not have the experience, education and understanding to engage in all aspects of that discussion...but they are convinced they are capable of it...until they meet certain people who truly are, face to face. Thats why I say ten thousand words of debate end when you meet those same people in person, hence the reason the remaining detractors will NEVER.....EVER...meet in person. They know what is going to happen, and it exposes everyones understanding on the spot.

I have called for a fair standard, based on what aikiweb did to several people who were making claims, to now be used for others who want to discuss IP/aiki as if they know something..."show!"
It is not going to happen. The results are to defining and finite and they tend to remove the debate points of those who attempt to redefine things to fit their views, I guess just because... it's their view!. You know, those who advocate, "natural internal power", "everyone has it" or "shinto ritual involvement", and the "fascia from a medical view" and now the recently exposed and hollow "mathmatics and physics approach" as anything other than what you referred to as just more belief systems ...completely unable to deliver in the real world.

When it comes to IP/aiki, my own meaning and observation is not limited to the those most often discussed here. I meant to be far more inclusive. Some here refer to the ICMA masters and their developement of internals, some refer to the few in the JMA who have anything by way of internals worthy of being called "developed." Beyond that discussion I challenge:

• Who is teaching that portion of their art in a cohesive and clear manner, that has real value, past technique or form. One sure indicator is how much of what they do is tied to their "technique."
• Who has students who can demonstrate it in a free manner.
• And who....knows how to use whatever, in a manner that has martial efficacy across the board..
• What happens when you start kicking and punching and trying to or succeeding in taking them to the ground?

I agree whole heartedly that the discussion ...can only...be discussed in person. There is a reason I advocate going out and meeting as many as you can who are supposed to be good and seeing what they can do and what their students can do. It protects those looking, and helps them to continuously define and re-define what good really means and what they want out of their pursuits.
I've never bought into this living legend Japanese and Chinese teacher stuff either. I have read more B.S. about ICMA masters who were "scary" and JMA aiki teachers who were "amazing."
Which turned out to be anything but. Beauty does lie in the eyes of the beholder I guess.
Of course there are some VERY good teachers out there and they can use what they know, The key points are
a) whether or not they are good,
b) whether or not they know how to fight with what they know-outside their system,
c) whether or not they can and will teach it.
I think you and I pretty much agree on all of those points.

Other than the old group were more raw recruits who I brought up, and the new group are mostly VERY experienced with anywhere from twenty to forty plus years in different arts; both are facing the same dilemas from different ends of the spectrum. I had to redefine things to make them more universal for so many different approaches. In that light I removed the idea of applications since they were a road block to many. Now, after meeting the old crew, the new crew wants to do more of my own ideas of application. I will leave you to figure out why that is.... The joke here is that we are going back to "the old way of MMA."

Ooooh... you have been informed of the recent "Don't talk about it" eh? I tell everyone at at seminars if they talk about the seminar or me on the net without clearing it with me, take a long look, because you will never see me again.

Well, its all the same to me, knife, sword, single stick, two stick, spear, hand to hand, for me they are all versions of the the same thing.

Jill calls it "Cowboys and indians"
Dressing up and playing out an era and culture beyond your experience opens up that culture to be redefined by many; student and teacher alike.

Of the dozen or so who got something, most are just doing the dad and husband time out thing...kids everywhere!!!!! A couple moved too far away, three are talking about coming back as the kids have gotten older, hence their recently showing up. There is no end of them kidding me "Hah! You've been discovered!" Remember, they have seen me close the dojo and stop teaching altogether...twice... with no notice to anyone. So they're cracking up at the recent turn of events and waiting for me to do it again!

oh yes...hundreds of others just were in and out and never amounted to much, we all know how that goes.
Cheers
Dan
P.S. Should have responded to your comment. I've enjoyed the exchange as well, Budd.