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Old 08-04-2010, 11:03 AM   #33
Gorgeous George
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 464
United Kingdom
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Re: When Should You Turn Your Face Away When Being Pinned....?

Quote:
Francis Takahashi wrote: View Post
The point that I believe is being ignored here is the role and importance of mutual courtesy, compassion and respect for the training objective itself. The training protocol, in Aikido especially, requires prudent and proven reigi or etiquette, providing realistic training for both nage and uke, in their respective roles that constantly reverse themselves for mutual benefit and balance.

In Aikido especially, the nage is given huge leeway in finishing the technique, which would be totally unrealistic and unacceptable for the uke to yield to in an actual confrontation, and life or death situation. Thus the agreement that uke allows the nage to perform the waza thoroughly without real resistance, and that the nage accepts the responsibility of keeping the uke safe from any real threat of harm, is the basis for Aikido's kata form of training.

The act of turning the face away at that point in the waza is simply uke's tacit acceptance of nage's superior position, which must then be acknowledged by nage's compassionate response and zanshin. There is no need to define winners or losers in this scenario. Properly executed, this form of training results in both being winners.

In oneness,
I totally understand, respect, etc. the purpose and form of aikido training; I think that you might have misunderstood me.
I'm not talking about resisting - which is fighting, essentially, and so not aikido - or being awkward: i'm talking about maintaining a connection, as uke, throughout a technique, so that it isn't dead, and aikido is being practiced by both parties. This connection means that if tori lets me up, I go up; if tori moves me down, I go down; if around, around - because i'm trying to stay connected.

When I am moved to a pin, there's a point at which it is futile and impossible to seek to maintain a connection with a view to moving into such an opening: it is at this point that I submit.
I was training with somone, doing ikkyo, who got to the part where we're both standing, and he's got my arm extended, but he just walked around, with us both like that, trying to get me to the ground, and ended up saying 'feel free to go down...'. A dan grade said to me that I should go down (rather than correcting his technique so that I would), and I said i'll go down if i'm made to; she said 'Well we're not into hurting each other here' in a patronising, dismissive tone. Surely if you need to hurt someone to aply ikkyo, that's not aikido...?
I just don't know how these people justify their approach.

The way I look at that is that I was maintaining a connection, receiving - as uke should - and responding to what was being done to me - which is the essence of aikido (as I understand it). If I took a dive, it wouldn't be aikido, the guy wouldn't ever get better, and he might end up getting seriously hurt if a real-life situation ever arose. He isn't doing the technique right, and that needs to be addressed, and resolved, rather than ignored.
...surely?

I know exactly what you're saying about 'tacit acceptance of nage's superior position' and submitting to another, and I agree.

With respect.
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