So let me get this straight Mike. Chuck, Chris and whoever else gets to be in VOE got togeather and offered various assorted inducements for Jun to come up with an idea which by its very nature excluded him. Yeah right.
And what was that idea? For some people to discuss issues that might be of interest to a wider group but free of the chatter delivered by the rest of us plebes. Face it there is an awful lot of that.
What burned your toast - did you try to get into the group and fail. For infos sake how often do YOU train. Why do I get the distince feeling its a lot less than those you are attacking.