That's all I'm saying... bowing, its not the outward form that matters. Its the rei in our spirit that's more important. To exclude someone because of this... well that's shallow.
Gee, thanks for that, but I've been called worse. If you read what I've written that isn't what I said. I think I was quite clear in my posts above differentiating among a series of issues. Adherence to Rei is a issue that varies from location to location. Some are more flexible than others. And we can disagree over what is "reasonable", but... It is *still* the sole decision of the individual sensei. It would be nice if people would be more flexible about things, especially given what you said about the spirit above. However, that is the choice of the person running the dojo.
But... If a person says they can't train with women, well, they may need to find somewhere else to train. Or else they can pay to have their own private classes. If there is no time/desire to offer up private classes to accommodate someone's particular needs then those needs may not be meant. That is not discriminatory. Discriminatory in *my* world is refusing to work with women. That means I'd be offering classes that women cannot attend solely due to their gender. And that is morally reprehensible to *my* sensibilities. Often we are faced with competing moral issues. Why should I have to bend to accommodate your moral beliefs when you refuse to do the same?
So, turning this around, how shallow is someone who thinks it is somehow wrong for me to refuse to discriminate against my women students, colleagues and friends? I should tell them they can't train in classes I teach just because someone else might have an issue? Just because they're women? Talk about shallow.
This is the point I think most of us are trying to get at. There *is* a conflict here between two ideologies. Some religions have rather strict prohibitions on certain things. I'm fine with that. I won't ask someone else to change their religion to train. But I also won't change the training to fit their religion *if* that change involves something I find morally reprehensible. At least have the courtesy to treat convictions against sexual discrimination with the same respect as you are demanding for those with convictions against training with women.