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Old 05-09-2010, 04:08 PM   #86
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,508
United_States
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Re: Yoshinkan and "aiki"

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Well, I understand what you're saying and I've understood it from the start. But you can't have 'aiki' without the basic jin force manifested via intention. Jin is a "specialized strength skill", not really li + qi in every case. There are a number of ways to manifest jin and some of them are pretty interesting; "aiki" is just one of those subsets.
Sounds like Horikawa had it and now that I've seen lots of clips of people hanging helpless off Gozo Shioda's obi, I can see that what he's doing is not normally known in aikido circles. Mochizuki Sensei didn't do that kind of thing, but he did some eerie things while I was around and Kenmotsu Sensei, his student, sometimes held my wrists with puzzling strength that I couldn't affect at all. Also, I once saw Tezuka Sensei shear a makiwara post off at the floor with a low front kick...But I always thought those strengths were incidental or something, just by-products of the regular training and that I would develop that kind of thing if I just kept training. For instance, a 5th dan was riding a scooter and a car hit him head-on and he flipped over the top of the car and landed on his feet behind it. He didn't try to do that. It just happened by reflex and he credited it to normal training. But I know now that Kenmotsu, at least, was holding "with jin" as you describe it. I know now that IS is a separate or inner thing apart from the outer techniques and that you can develop it especially.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
(Tai chi ruler is...) just an exercise, mainly for jin/qi. There are many exercises that will do the same thing. If someone has "done Tai Chi Chih for years" and done it correctly, you should be able to feel their jin/qi immediately. I.e., any exercise done correctly, particularly 'internal' exercises, should have demonstrable results. For instance, once I pushed hands with a guy in a park in London and I knew immediately that he had no jin/qi skills because they were absent. Later he asked me to watch his form and to offer some corrections for the postures. I declined. It was obvious that he'd been doing his forms wrong for years or I would have felt his jin/qi skills if he'd been doing them correctly, right? So everything he was practicing was simply wrong, but I didn't want to say such a thing to him since I'd only just met him.
And I have long felt that way about most aikido people I've met. The clubs tend to be more like standing discussion groups, the techniques being only symbolically "martial" and the practice pretty much lacking any "life"--just forms of techniques repeated endlessly...and the insipid smile that this engenders is...unpleasant to me.

But I see now that it can go a lot deeper than just having martial technique and resistance in training (tori never resisting uke in any way, but uke resisting tori at any point where he can feel something to resist). What Shioda shows repeatedly is that there is an inner aiki that needs no particular technique at all to completely overcome the opponent at a touch.

Thanks.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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