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Old 04-30-2010, 07:18 AM   #15
MM
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
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Re: Yoshinkan and "aiki"

Quote:
Jonathan Wong wrote: View Post
Mark M, it would be interesting to hear how your outlook may have changed in the time since you started this thread. Still think A and B are a prereq for C? I'm starting to wonder if it is the other way around sometimes. Probably they all depend on each other rather than being true prereqs.
Quote:
Allan Featherstone wrote: View Post
Interesting read. Mark M I would also be interested in knowing how your perspective has changed or not as the case maybe since your original post. Elbow power is also something that is used in ICMA. As for the elbow having no power as in the article i would have to say that i find the opposite is true, it is an easy place to concentrate power.
Hello,

I'll start with a quick answer. Are A and B prereqs to C? Considering that to have A and B, one must have a structured body, then yes. What good is breath power if the body's structure has slack, can't properly receive energy, and can't deliver power through A or B? If you can't physically keep a structured body to deliver center line power, how are you going to do that with breath?

As for Chushin-ryoku and Shuchu-ryoku ...

Quote:
Tomoo Yawata wrote:
"Chushin-ryoku(Central power build by the formation of a strong central axis), "Shuchu-ryoku(Concentrational power or concentrated power through the central axis)
So, Chushin-ryoku is concerned with a central axis (spine) and power somehow generated from or around that.

Seems someone else mentioned "central axis" with regards to internal training. Note, though, that there is an added "pivoting" to it.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
You got the points of working on intent; paired and solo. Initial opposing force; up/down/ in /out. Central axis pivoting, and winding, then felt its use in spiraling and support.
Cheers
Dan
Then, we find that Hisa also noted about training in a central axis pivot while walking. Dan coined the term, Central Pivot, to define some of this action. The upper body (from shoulders all the way down to the "V" of the crotch) rotating freely around the spine while the hips are kept forward.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Hisa who trained with Takeda and Ueshiba
"I practiced all the time, even walking through the crowded street learning to turn the shoulders"
Hint-he was learning to keep the hips aligned and pivoting from the waist while maintaining an upper / lower body connection (something which involves a central pivot, which I have never seen done well in any modern aikidoka I know)

Cheers
Dan
And then, we come to a great example of how to imagine the power that can be derived from this kind of training ...

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
An explanation I gave a long time ago
Imagine there is a thick pole in the ground rising vertically, with a peg stuck through it at chest height.
Imagine I told you to hold on to the arms of the peg.
Imagine the pole is a drive shaft stuck into an engine below the floor you couldn't have seen.
Imagine me turning it on
Imagine you in the hospital with two broken arms and a concussion from where you landed on your head.
Imagine me asking you to do it again
Imagine the peg now has two arms welded to it with boxing gloves.
Imagine the drive shaft through the floor is now a 300 horsepower washing machine agitator
Imagine me turning it on
Imagine you in the hospital with a broken -everything.
Since the agitator destroyed your bones with power, do you think it lost its balance and had to take Ukemi? Do you think it lost a degree of force delivery and bounced back?

People are usually a "mess in motion," loose sacks of grain that in various ways bleed out energy all over the place. With so much slack, or worse so much tension in movement that they loose or dissipate the greater portion of their power before it is delivered.

Now
Imagine a door with a pivot in the middle
If you push on the left you get slammed from the right as you fell into the negative "hole" from the door freely spinning.
Imagine pushing very hard and fast.
Imagine getting out of the hospital and me asking you to do it again
This time the door has a big silver ball bearing in the middle supported at a 45 degree angle off the floor from the back
Imagine pushing on any part of the freewheeling door and getting slammed from the others corner or side.

Imagine getting out of the hospital and me asking you to do it again
Now
Imagine the door...with a free will and mind of its own, vectoring and moving with you and coming after you.

The only thing left to do is ask whether or not you know someone who knows a way to make your body capable of absorbing and delivering power in that manner.
Everything up to this point is pretty much covering Chushin-ryoku. Something that takes a lot of training to build within the body.

I've been dedicated to Internal Training for 2.5 years out of a total of 3 (I tried to blend "regular" aikido training and internal training for 1/2 year -- it didn't work for me) and I still have major trouble with Chushin-ryoku.

So, keeping all the above in mind, especially the last example given by Dan about the power generated by this principle and then read the below quote.

http://books.google.com/books?id=1jo...0RYOKU&f=false

Quote:
Total aikido: the master course wrote:
If the whole body is integrated as it moves, its power will be the power of the focused center line concentrated into one point. To put it another way, shuchu-ryoku is chushin-ryoku at its extreme.
Imagine the power of Chushin-ryoku focused and concentrated into one point -- say an atemi. Very, very powerful.
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